Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Is My Kid Gifted?

Hi All! I posted some time ago with questions about scores on a WJ test my daughter was given with placed her at 99.6 overall. She is 9 and going into 4th grade in public school with no gifted program. I am questioning her abilities lately. I am wondering if her "executive functioning" is advanced. Could advanced executive functioning make a child seem gifted? Her ability to focus on something she enjoys is crazy. She learned to recognize words at 18 months and was reading chapter books in kindergarten...she learned to crawl at 4 months and was potty trained at 23 months. She never needed much sleep and was able to do word problems using multiplication in kindergarten...She is fair, kind and has a crazy ability to understand others. She tells me that our neighbor, who is unkind, is only that way because her parents aren't around. She has been cooking for herself for years, (I was sick while pregnant with second child and she learned to fix herself food and log into the computer and play games on Noggin - at 2) excels at Ballet and taught herself a fair amount of gymnastics. She read Harry Potter in second grade (I made her wait 'til 3rd to read the last 2 books) and writes a lot. She draws the best in her class and picked up reading music easily from school music class. Other girls adore her, but she has no best friends. This year she received all 4 (above grade level) in reading and many 4's in Math and the rest 3's...also 4's in art and music. She frequently fails to read the instructions and gets answers wrong. She clearly comprehends what she is reading (even to her teacher oraly) but fails to present what she understands in written form, so her reading level is only 5th grade...quite under what she reads at home. I guess I'm wondering if this is just a very well rounded child with an advanced executive functioning...much unlike many of the children I read on here with very strong abilities in one area.

I am attaching a piece of writing she has been working on. She rarely finishes what she starts as she has grand ideas of what she would like to do and runs out of stamina only a short way through. BUT she started writing the 8th book to Harry Potter. I understand that this is NOT great writing BUT I can't seem to find any other children who write novels in their spare time. I am attaching it, hoping that you will be truthful with me as to the giftedness of my daughter. Obviously, her writing sample is only a small part of who she is, but it is easily pastable, so I'll paste it. Pardon her mis-use of capitalization and paragraphs. Some editing will be in order, but she typed it and this is the way she did.

Lily Potter and the Survivor�s Cave
By Vanessa M.
CHAPTER 1

The morning sunlight shone brightly down upon Lily Potter�s bed. Lily, an eleven-year-old girl with long, bright orange hair just like her mother, was sleeping deeply. Both her brothers, Albus and James, had dark black hair. Lily suddenly awoke to the sound of her mother calling, �Lily! Come down! The express leaves at exactly 10:00. We have to hurry because YOU can�t apparate! The Kings Cross station is four hours away. Hurry Albus, James�� Lily scrambled out of bed and out into the hallway. She was so exited! She was going to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. It�s a boarding school, so you must pack. THAT�S when Lily remembered -she forgot her luggage. THAT�S when she remembered a summoning charm her father, Harry had taught her.�Accio trunk!� she said wearily. A big wooden trunk came soaring down the staircase and landed with a thump next to her.
�Wow!� said Lily �It actually works! Next, she tried making it float with the Wingardiam Leviosa charm. All her trunk did was shift a little in place. Those were all the charms and spells her mother and father had taught her, but she knew she was to learn many more at Hogwarts, like Expelliarmes and Impedimenta. Lily hopped down the stairs all the way to the bottom. �Oh there you are,� said Mrs. Potter. �Breakfast is on the table.� Lily was starving as she sat down to eat. �Pumpkin pasties for breakfast?� asked Lily. �Well, being it�s the first day at Hogwarts, I thought a little treat would be fine,� said Mr. Potter proudly. �oh, and Albus, I know you don�t like them so here�s some every flavored beans instead.�Borty Bots Every Flavored Beans were a favorite at Hogwarts. �BLAH! EWW! YUCK! Earwax!� a painful scream came from the other end of the table. �Albus, you�re just making that up because Dumbledore the greatest headmaster at Hogwarts EVER said it to dad after he fought the Basilisk.�Lily said sounding very annoyed. �no, really! Its true! I got Earwax flavored bean! Really, you should believe me�� Lily was not amused. She grabbed one end of the table cloth and yanked it off the table, sending silverwear flying; forks, knives, spoons; plates, bowles and everything on the table: all now flying in the air. Ginny, Lily�s mother cried one word, �Impedimenta!� everything that was about to shatter to the ground was now floating dreamily through the hemisphere. With another flick of her wand, Mrs. Potter set everything back on the table. �Lily! Excuse me! We do not throw things into the air at any rate! Do you understand?� Lily was awestruck. What had she done wrong? Had she even taken a look at these, these people?
�er, I�m sorry, what?�
�REMEMBER WHAT YOU JUST DID?�
�Im sorry whatever you�re name is but I have clearly no Idea what you are talking about, or where I am� oh, do you live here? Its such a nice cozy place.�
�Harry!� exclaimed Mrs. Potter, �I think someone�s� wiped her memory!� everyone was quite silent for a moment, then Lily said, �what does that mean?� �Gamblia!� cried Mr. Potter. Lily was finally back to normal. �but� but Harry, I thought there was no counter curse for memory wiping?� �oh, I made that one up in case of an emergency.� �well great thinking done on you�re part.�
Th whole family ate in silence for the rest of the meal.

Thanks Sydness.
I enjoyed reading this very much and look forward to reading more.
(Does this mean that Harry marries Herminie? I always felt a bit uncomfortable about the Hermine and Ron thing)

Anyway - think you DD would enjoy this?
http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/ywp

It's hard being the only child around with a particular interest...It's possible that your local library would be willing for you to organize a NaNoWrMo event to raise awareness or even sponsor a writers group for young people.

If you can get the school to allow her to take an online class during school hours, you might check out
http://www.onlineg3.com/

Which is more about becoming an excellent reader than writing, but at least with peers.

Another possibility is to check out the local college/university/community college and see if there is a professor who would act as a mentor.

As far as the question of 'is she gifted' - I think you'd need an IQ test to know.
Would the school provide one?
Another possibility is to do the talent search testing -
read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Talented_Youth#Talent_search

Don't know if any of these sites are nearby, but she could attend next summer:

When you say "I am questioning her abilities lately" I can't tell if you are questioning that she is much stronger than expected or much weaker. What is your main worry?

Best wishes,
Grinity

nope...Ginny is the mom here. Harry married Ginny.

Hmmm. We are 1.5 hour away from the one in Mass. I will have to look into that!

We can't pay for an IQ. School seems like they won't either, although I haven't pushed as hard as I could. But why would they test if they have no program and have a NO "skipping" policy!? Our school system tests for giftedness in 4th grade with some sort of group test. Then your name gets on a list. And that is that.
In 6th grade you are placed in either regular (Everyday Math) or accelerated Math or pre-algebra. I assume she will test into the pre-algebra trac in 6th. (But by then, she may have just give up.)

I guess I'm questioning if her abilities are a high I as thought they were. She was VERY advanced as a baby and todler. VERY! People called her a liar when they asked her how old she was and what grade she was in. Her answer was two! (She was drawing really well before she turned 2, speeking, writing, recognizing words and all letters and knew all letter sounds. She was a computer whiz (exclaiming once, at 2, that the video wouldn't play because she was using the wrong BROWSER! I never did math at home with her, but by 5, it was obvious she could manipulate money way better than her class-mates.)

I'm questioning her abilities now. She seems VERY good, probabally 1 or 2 or 3 years ahead in EVERYTHING - even social interactions, dress, and self-help.

I guess I'm wondering...she seems to have very good executive funtion! Being potty trained by 23 months and NEVER having one accident. Sleeping throught the night at 3 weeks and not needing naps. Finding her way/directions...she always found/finds my car. Crazy memory (annoyingly crazy). Always remembers a face. Understands the social scene after only a few minutes.

Maybe this good executive function makes her a few years advanced in all things, but not really far advanced in any one thing. She is a jack of all trades! Master of - - well -- maybe Ballet...(on her way)...
Now, in third grade, she is getting answers wrong. I can't tell if it is because she is crazy bored, or if she really does need the practice. She is not reading directions. She is adding instead of subtracting. She is not answering in complete sentences. She seems like she doesn't take very long on any problem and just writes the easy thing...right or wrong. Her penmanship has become a problem. (used to be beautiful) She frequently sovles a problem and coppies the answer to her page wrong because she can't read her answer. OR worse she does the problem in her head and makes an error.

She thinks everything is easy, and tells me it is too easy, yet gets answers wrong!

If she is underachieving, I fear it may be too late for her to recover.

If she really needs the extra practice, how can I knock her down a notch without hurting her self-esteem so she will take her time and open her mind and allow others to teach her.

I guess the problem I see, is that she won't learn...she thinks she knows everything already! It doesn't help that her friends think that she knows everything too!

I guess I'm just venting, but any insight would be helpful! Again, she has not been identified as gifted, but her 1&2 grade (Montessori) teacher told us she was very gifted and so did her public (old) second grade teacher. He said she was the "smartest" kid he ever taught!

Comments like these, may be why she is here, thinking that she knows everything.

For sure, it's never too late. It will most likely be a painful road back, but it surely isn't too late. It may require more than you can get the resources to provide. It may not be the best use of family resources at this time - but it is possible.

(Golly - I am rusty on my HP-ology! I forgot about Ginny ((red face)))

Smiles,
Grinity

How do you fix an under achiever? Push 'em? Make big red x's on problems? She always make excuses, like, "I knew that, I just wrote it wrong!" Will this harm her if she really isn't capable!? I guess I really do need that test...lol..we will wait and see how she does on that group test in a few months. The start of a new school year always brings new hope for me! Having new teachers who might offer her some insentive!
Thanx for your reply!

Ok - I do agree that strong EF function allows a bright child to look more 'impressive' and could mislead folks - but then, if that were the case here - why would a child who is 1-3 years ahead in the knowledge making the kind of errors your dd is making? If a child is bright and strong in EF, they wouldn't be making the kind of errors you are describing, yes?

Here are some possible 'next steps' -
1)check all the local universities and see if they are doing IQ tests are part of any studys (lots of studies need control groups)that wouldn't cost you anything.
2) Go through JHU's CTY website and sign up for the SCAT test - it's cheaper than an IQ test.
3) Have you made an appointment to talk to your child's teacher? If so, did you go up the chain to speak to the principle? If you have done both of these, it's time to request, in writing, an IQ test. Say that you are concerned that a learning disability is preventing your daughter from reading the directions and remembering which is addition and which is subtraction. If not, then make an appointment with next years teacher as soon as the school will let you, tell them what you told us about the errors you are seeing:

It is possible that next year's teacher will be wonderful. It does happen once in a while.

I wouldn't asks the teacher how to 'knock her down a peg' because if the teacher isn't an absolute angel, it's way to temping to the lower parts of human nature.

Take some time to journal about your childhood, about how people acted when you thought that you knew everything, and how you were 'knocked down a peg' for better and for worse.

Remember that a school may have a 'no skips' policy and then may quietly ignore that policy when needed. The school probably also has a motto, such as 'Develop each child to their fullest' that might over-rule the 'no skip' policy.

It might be that the school would allow you to part-time homeschool certian subjects.
4) I would call the pediatrician and try to set up an appointment to have her 'checked out' because she is 'acting strangely.' There is a chance that the pediatrician will shed some light on this, or refer you somewhere that is covered by your insurance that will shed some light.

Good luck!
For the future -
1) Consider attending the 'Beyond IQ conference in the Spring of 2012' - it's aimed for HG and PG families, but there isn't any paperwork-proof required for attendence.
2) When your daughter gets to middle school, consider sending her to MIT's Splash - it's the weekend before Thanksgiving and lots of fun. Again, no paperwork needed.
3) When your DD turns 10, sign her up for the SATs. It will give her some idea of how much more there is to learn, and it's a cheap way to document how 'outside the box' she is in her learning needs.
4) If you live south of Hadley, join Connecticut's state gifted group, and bring your daughter to their Saturday enrichment program - "Minds in Motion"
5) if you live East of Hadley, check out http://www.voyagersinc.org/wiki/bin/view/Public/WebHome
for gifted-friendly events, even if you don't end up homeschooling, there will be lots of smart moms to talk to.
I don't know the resources to the West and North - but I'll bet they exist. Problem is finding them.
6) What about homeschooling??? Have you checked around all the private schools? (even the ones who say that they don't have 'merit aid' probably would make an exception for your kid if they want her badly enough) At the very least, the private schools have very interesting things to say when they check out your child and form their own opinions about what she needs - sort of like a free evaluation.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I call this the 'Goldilocks Problem' - when a child is seriously underplaced for a long long time, then everything is 'too easy' or 'too hard' - finding the just right level to learn is very difficult indeed. It takes slow careful 'supported pushes' to get a child out of this - we did it by afterschooling with Aleks.com

It's great having the computer be the 'bad guy' and one can just be an ally for the child.

As for the comments - wrap your head around this possibility - the comments might only have served to validate what she is surely able to see for herself. Scary, huh?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I will do all of those. We are near Yale. Where would I begin? Which department would I call? Child Psych?

I am not gifted. (although I was always called gifted in art and creative writing..by teachers)...so I don't know if I have any "knocking me down a notch stories" but I guess that does sound like a bad idea...lol.

My husband was tested when he was young...the SB and tested out...at 140...tester guessed it was around 152 or 153. So, I feel very inadequate raising this little one! (I have a 5 year old who may be going down the same road, but is less "even" with fine motor skill lagging a bit)

I have requested a subject skip in math...denied.
I have requested from many people (including school psych) testing...was told they don't do achievement testing for anyone.

I have not writen a request for an IQ test. I will word it exactly how you said. Never thought of questioning a LD! Brilliant! Although, they might think I'm crazy because I already requested the grade skip..and her grades are high!

I actually DO think my little one has a LD of some sort and talked to the Spec Ed teacher about it and was told "A child reading at DD5's level, doesn't have a LD)! So, I never thought to go there with DD9!

Thanx for the wonderful help. If you wouldn't mind telling me which department to start with at Yale.!?

Sydness,

Have your DD take SCAT test (John Hopkins CTY talent search). http://cty.jhu.edu/

It costs $55 and you can do it locally in one of the test center. The test is 2 grades above level. When she qualifies, you may apply for financial aid and do online or camp. Yale has SIG (summer institute of gifted students) as well during summer time.

If your school/ district policy does not do grade skipping, any test result won't help. At least you can supplement her with outside resources. There are other resources in this forum you may find it useful. Yes, she may end up doing extra work compared with other kids but that will keep her on her toes until she gets to middle school when she will have pre-AP classes, etc...

Here's the link to Research at Yale -
http://trials.yale.edu/clinicalTrials/list.asp?health=Y&newSearch=Y

I didn't see anything that looked likely, but you can always try calling asking. Also - make a date with yourself to check in 3 months.

It might be worth a call to Yale Child Study Center

230 South Frontage Rd.
New Haven, CT 06520
Tel: 203.785.2540
to see if there are any discounted IQ tests being given by trainees.

Worth a vist to this school -
Phoenix Academy
www.phoenixacademy.org/

and this one -
Pierrepont School - Home Page
www.pierrepontschool.org/

I know some families who love this one -
http://www.footeschool.org/
(they have a summer program as well - August 15-19 and 22-26)

If you haven't discoverd this weekend activity/summer program place - try some summer classes here:
http://www.eliwhitney.org/new/workshop/summer-2011

The Eli Whitney Museum and Workshop | Make something of yourself.
www.eliwhitney.org/

These people are amazing and attract a very gifted-friendly crowd - one summer my son got inspired to learn to solve the Rubix cube from one of the other campers. Be ready to try and find some 'like minded' friends for your daughter there, and ask the other moms lots of questions about which school is working for them.

Here's the link for the State association - http://www.ctgifted.org/

I'll post more as I think of it -
Love and More Love,
Grinity