Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Writing hang ups

Does anyone have experience with helping an otherwise very bright and capable student conquer writing hang ups?

We have come a long loooonnnnnggggg way in understanding and helping my DD18 since I started searching for answers last year, my DD has matured exponentially, has hope, is no longer depressed and is responding extremely well to the ADD meds...

HOWEVER, there still seems to be some kind of major hang up about writing. I don't get it, she can write, and has written some really good creative stuff, but only on her terms and her schedule. Whenever I suggest a writing assignment the reaction is pure terror, physical shaking, tears, begging...catatonic shutdown. I went back and reviewed some of my posts from before we got the evaluation and diagnosis of ADD and ASD and I came across this article on NVLDs which may shed some light but it does not offer any concrete suggestions for dealing with/overcoming the difficulty:

http://www.ldonline.org/article/6114

Time is getting short as she will go off to college in late August and there will be quite a few writing assignments...I want to make sure she gets off to the best start possible. With a DX of NVLD instead of or in addition to ASD/ADD would there be justification for asking for special consideration on writing assignments like reduced length expectations, heavier weight on oral interviews or??? Or better yet, is there a way to help someone overcome this type of paralyzing writing phobia?

Nik, my DS8 (who has ASD) was like this-- even kindergarten homework that didn't challenge him sent him spiraling.

For someone your DD's age, I'd see if she's open to visiting a cognitive-behavioral therapist. She needs to change the way she thinks about this task-- it's not a simple job, but it can be done.

Definitely approach the college-- they should have an office of disabilities-- find out what documentation they need in order to offer accommodations. You can also see if they have a psychologist on campus who works with students with this kind of issue. This isn't going to be solvable in a few weeks, so she'll need support there if she is going to continue to make progress.

Ultimately, you don't want it to end with accommodations-- you want your DD to learn the skill of writing, which is one of the key things people get out of college.

HTH,
DeeDee

I am in the process of reading The Mislabeled Child

http://mislabeledchild.com/

and I am finding it VERY helpful. My DD is almost 9 and writing is her Waterloo. She is terrified of picking up a pencil. She also has ADHD, but something is just not clicking with her diagnoses thus far. She will be assessed in September to rule out/in dyslexia and dysgraphia (my nephew has severe dysgraphia). This book has great suggestions for accomodations and strategies for ADHD, gifted children and handwriting issues. I have had the book borrowed from the library for three months now and realized yesterday that I need to buy it... it just has too much information for me to remember all of it.

When I was a teacher and parents asked me how to help develop their children's writing abilities at home, I always gave these four suggestions:
1) create a special writing corner http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/02/28/creating-a-writing-corner/
2) make a personal dictionary
http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/03/02/personal-dictionary/
3) buy your child a journal
4) give them lots of stationary supplies including their own personalized address labels, as well as special pens

For an 18 year old? Geesh, that's a tough one. I only taught up to the 4th grade! But putting a positive spin on it with a nice fountain pen, a journal, and a special place to write could still be helpful. I would also try checking out the Well Trained Mind forum for ideas: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/index.php

Regarding dyslexia and dysgraphia, I've heard that All About Spelling can be helpful: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/where-to-start/all-about-spelling-level-1/

There is also a program out there called "apples and pears" that is supposed to be good too.

Thanks for the suggestions. DeeDee, I don't think we have enough time to find a CBT that she jives with quickly enough to make a difference before school starts(she takes a while to get comfortable enough to open up to new people). She would read a book on the issue though, if we knew what the issue was, but so far nothing seems to fit quite like the books indicate. I would love to find a book that outlines what a CBT would do or say to help someone work through writing hang ups if they are in fact just psychological.

I contacted the disabilities office at the college and I sent them the full diagnostic report, but I came away feeling a little silly because I really didn't know what specifically to ask for. They have writing tutors available and they have free counselors who will do calendar checks if a student wants them to.

I know my DD is capable of writing well, I have seen several great poems, songs and essays she has written over the years. She has no trouble reading or spelling and does extremely well on English tests that don't require actually producing an essay. I am thinking that rules out most of the LDs that are typically associated with writing trouble.

K's mum, I am ordering the book, thanks! We just had a full neuro-psychological evaluation in February, and they knew we were looking for answers to the writing hang-up but they said nothing about the possibility of Dysgraphia, does that mean it was ruled out? I just googled it and DD has many of the traits on the list:

* Tight, awkward pencil grip and body position
* Illegible handwriting
* Avoiding writing or drawing tasks
* Tiring quickly while writing
* Saying words out loud while writing
* Unfinished or omitted words in sentences
* Difficulty organizing thoughts on paper
* Difficulty with syntax structure and grammar
* Large gap between written ideas and understanding demonstrated through speech.

The diagnostician did say that my DD froze up when it came time for the writing part of the IQ test, but after verbally discussing the writing prompt with her, it was clear that she had all the information to respond to the prompt and could produce a good verbal response, but that the essay was not as complete as the verbal response. The diagnostician felt this disconnect was indicative of ADHD.

Jen, thanks, we did most of those things through the years, journals, diaries, cute stationary etc, she was never interested.
Re; the writing corner...recently the big problem was getting her college application essay done. On the way home from visiting the school, she enthusiastically verbalized everything that she was going to write about and it was fabulous, but then...nothing. I turned the extra bedroom into a clean, quiet, calm and inviting office with minimal distractions. I included all the necessary supplies and several seating options: a desk and chair, a comfy reading chair and a futon, I even made a "do not disturb" sign for the door....still nothing. She finally wrote the essay 2 months later in one 1/2 hour sitting, late at night, in the disastrous mine-field of a mess he calls her bedroom with rock music blasting(!). The resulting essay was pretty darn good...just 2 months behind schedule.

Can you find one at or near the college that she could see while she's there? This is likely to be an ongoing issue until you resolve it. I don't foresee a quick fix.


With AS and ADHD, she has likely fairly severe executive function issues: they aren't "just" psychological (and I don't think psychological is "just"-- can be debilitating). I don't know that reading about it will do much toward fixing it-- the book Smart but Scattered is highly recommended for bright people who have trouble with executive function, but what a CBT would do is likely much more tailored to her specific needs.


I think you should describe for them the problems as clearly as you can (including the severity you have seen) and ask them what supports they would recommend to address these problems. They may note that it's partly out of their league, or be able to refer you to a therapist on or off campus who (in addition to their supports) will be enough.


It is classic in ADHD and AS (both featuring executive function issues) that a person who is capable still doesn't manage to deliver the result.

It may make sense to pursue a further evaluation for "disorder of written expression" (dysgraphia); but the people who treat my DS's AS through behavior therapy did a fine job of remediating his writing issues. He's now operating at grade level (not far above, as his IQ would suggest he should, but I'll take it for now.)

The advantage of treating it through behavior therapy is that they are also equipped to target anxiety or other things that are limiting your DD. An OT who works on writing is equipped for the mechanics of writing, but not necessarily for the behavior issues that arise with AS and ADHD.

Best wishes,
DeeDee

My son is diagnosed with a severe Disorder of Written Expression in addition to having motor dysgraphia (and AS), and he has no trouble reading, spelling, or doing other verbal tasks where written output is not required. Left to his own devices, he can sometimes produce incredible *typed* poems, songs, stories, and essays on topics of his own choosing and in his own time. He likes to draw. None of these things rule out a writing LD. He can respond verbally to essay prompts, but has a great deal of difficulty producing organized written output on a given topic on demand.

Some things that really helped him be able to perform at an adequate level for assigned writing situations (with the necessary accommodations of keyboarding and extended time ) were:

* explicit instruction in how to brainstorm and organize ideas, starting at the level of the sentence, and working up to the level of the paragraph and essay.

* reassurance that the very worst thing that could possibly happen as the result of a bad or mediocre essay completed within the assignment framework was still way better than the best things that could result from not turning one in at all, or from turning in one that didn't answer the assignment. This did a lot to decrease anxiety.

* practice with timed writing exercises, starting with topics that he cared about and was interested in, and moving gradually to topics that he had no interest in.

Initially, these were brainstorming-only exercises: finding a main idea and three or four supporting details in 5 minutes or 10 minutes, and writing down a keyword for each in an outline format. This exercise can be used at all levels of organization - sentence, paragraph, and essay. Once he was fluent with brainstorming ideas and organizing them into a hierarchical structure, we worked on expanding them into fleshed-out writing, following the outline he'd generated.

The writing he generates this way isn't always his best work, but it gave him a toolkit that he can pull out when he absolutely has to write and inspiration doesn't strike.

The Purdue OWL is a great resource for developing writing skills, and it has lots of practical advice that we have found tremendously helpful.

My DD9 is working with an OT this summer to address writing initiation and output. They recommend the book Late, Lost, and Unprepared: A Parents' Guide to Helping Children with Executive Functioning [Paperback]
Joyce Cooper-Kahn (Ph.D.) (Author), Laurie Dietzel (Ph.D.) (Author)
They break down different types of executive function impediments to writing and have specific recommendation regarding software and other accommodations.

DeeDee, I asked my DD if she would be willing to try going to a CBT and she said "we can't afford that". Then she promised to write for an hour a day from now til school starts. So maybe the threat of actually getting help is sufficient motivation to push herself without getting help? Is that reverse psychology, ODD pr what - lol?

I do plan to seek out the school counselor in person when we drop DD off next month and try to build enough of a rapport that DD will feel comfortable going to her for help if/when things get overwhelming. Maybe she will be able to suggest someone (a CBT)in town if it looks necessary, but I just don't see my DD wanting to go out of her way to seek help from a stranger in a strange town unless there was some imminent threat of something worse happening(like getting expelled).

Aculady - THANKS!!! It sounds like your son is very similar and it is helpful to know that having a Disorder of Written Expression does not preclude the ability to write (type) well under some conditions. I now have useful new words to google for clues and answers :-). Those are some very helpful suggestions and The PerdueOwl site has more great advice. I think I will take advantage of DD's new commitment to one hour of writing a day and try to use some of these strategies.

Knute, I actually have that book, I bought it before we had the ADD and ASD dx and I haven't looked at it since. I am going back to re-read it now. I did buy a small recorder which was/is helpful. I bought the Dragon II naturally speaking software too, but DD became too frustrated with it to finish setting up. I think I'll see if she can muster the patience to set it up now that she has the ADD meds.

I'm thinking about doing http://campnanowrimo.org/ for the month of August, and starting today to get a jumpstart. Since your daughter is planning to write daily, maybe she would be interested. The goal is 50,000 words in a month and they are very friendly about the idea that a first draft isn't the place for the 'inner critic' to be active.

I think that for some people, the 'inner critic' is more of a feeling of dread/panic than an actual voice, so it's harder to identify. For me the cycle is:
Dread - write - hear the inner critic's vocalization
As if the dread is to try to get me to avoid writing so that I won't have to suffer later when the inner critic starts ripping.

Of course if I'm writing because I believe I'm 'doing service' then I sidestep the whole process, because I'm not writing to be evaluated, but to give service by communicating something that is vitally important to me, and hopefully to the other person as well.

My plan for sidestepping the dread/critic cycle for campnanowrimo is to try and pretend that there is someone out there who feels very lonely, and that if I can share my mind fully enough, that they might read it and feel un-lonely. I'm quite good at pretending, so I think that might work. Well, we'll see.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Thanks Grinity, very cool. A couple questions:

Does the month start whenever you start, or is it from the 1st to the 31st?

What happens if you don't make it?

Is your work protected? (In case it turns out to be amazing!!)

Do you have control over who else can read and/or comment on your efforts?

Is this a year round thing or a specific "novel month" thing?

Do they mini challenges so you can work up to 50,000 words? (That sounds a bit ominous to start out with).

My DD has started on a short story that is very good so far, I am not sure it could or should be stretched to 50,000 words though, it works well as a short story. We are leaving for vacation next week (no computers), then school starts in late August so August may be tough for doing an online challenge. I will share the link, it may appeal to her, it's certainly worth a shot!



Interesting, my DD says she either never felt stress or else she doesn't know how to tell she's feeling stress. She doesn't know or can't verbalize what it is she is feeling when she freezes up with that look of sheer terror at the prospect of writing. Maybe it's dread/panic.

Good luck with your own Novel! I like your plan, I have no doubt your novel will be great.
Nik

This is pretty common - I think - for folks who have 'social communication deficits.' When DS was small and I wanted to correct some social behavior, I would ask, "How would that make you feel if the other child did that to you?"
He's respond: "I wouldn't mind at all."

I never knew to what extend he was just being defensive or to what extent he was being truthful to the best of his ability. I knew from observation that at other moments he sure didn't like being the object of that behaior, so it made me wonder.

Much of my own knowledge of others come from my use of imagination to put myself in the other's shoes. If I had limited self-awareness, that stratagy wouldn't help me much.

My guess is that if you see the physical signals of stress, that her body is experiencing it, and that it is affecting her mind in some way, even if she isn't aware of it. I liked the explaination in Daniel Goleman's 1996 book Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala_hijack

Take a look and see if it's helpful.
As for the NaNo thing, it's in July, August, and November as far as I can tell. Perhaps someone else here knows more?

Love and More Love,
Grinity