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    kayl29 Offline OP
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    My son is gifted which I suspected since he was very young. He has always performed well so it was very apparent to his teachers also. The main problem is his many sensitivities- touch, sound, emotional and his deep thinking along with his extreme extraversion. Because everything he thinks, feels comes out of his mouth we have run into our share of problems. He can over react to touch, to mean words, to very noisy classrooms. HIs over enthuisiam about life and learning which many kids do not share is not always well recieved. My question is threefold. HIs IQ basically ceiling out on the WISC, what I have read is that most of these kids that have really high IQ's are introverts- what are they like when they are extraverts. Many educators have suggested many diagnosis, the one that makes most sense is sensory integration issues. Many of the sensitivities I have read that gifted kids have are very like if not the same thing as sensory integration problems. Any suggestions as what to do with this child????????


    karen
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    No suggestions, but I have a very active son also. It can be very tiring because he is NEVER quiet. If we are in a store he will sound off, because he likes the accoustics. Everyone in the store is looking at me as if he is crazy. I understand the enthusiam. Generally, I try to spend some "get our crazies out" time and then eat/bathe or some other interum activity and then have some quiet time reading or on an art project. I know if we go to a carnival he will peg the needle. He feeds off the lights and noise. He is 3 1/2 and I am going to have his IQ tested in the next few weeks.

    Maybe trying to desensitize him might help. Calming classical music, playing with paper mache or play dough, jumping in a pile of leaves? (Okay so maybe one suggestion...)

    Good Luck to you

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    Hi Karen -
    Welcome.


    My son also test high, on IQ, sensitivity, and extroversion. I keep telling myself that "at least he doesn't suffer in silence - who knows how much damage could have been done if he were complaint by nature?"

    Step One
    You don't say how old your son is, but if he's young enough (7 or less?) I would strongly urge you to find an Occupational therapist who is well versed in sensory integration and has a compatible personality (well-versed in gifted is probably too much to ask, but would be nice)and get him some OT. If you have medical insurance, they may help. Once your private OT sees him, she/he may be able to write a letter to your school and get OT during school hours as well. Amazingly the school gave him 2 half hours of small group OT/PT for 6 months in addition to his private OT when he didn't have any "agreed upon" diagnosis. It worked wonders. I'm grateful that I was ignorant of Gifted Issues at the time because I might have passed it off as "normal for gifted." Afterall, I had been passing it all off as "normal for our family," for 7 years - LOL!

    do I think that he actually had Sensory Integration Disorder seperate from Gifted Oversensitivities? No, but who can tell? All I know is that it was totally worth the money, time and aggravation.

    I'd also reccomending reading Ayer herself. Some OTs depart from her teachings in ways that penalize gifted kids. For example - Ayer believed that children intutivly knew which activities they need to do to heal. By contrast, our OT, a very kind and sweet woman overall, wanted DS10, then age 7, to comply with her agenda based on her assesment. I was just happy to be able to go into our local family style Chinese Resturant again!

    Step 2 -
    The friendship thing. Join local gifted support group and try to set up playdates with other kids of similar interests, so that he gets to spend at least some social time with a peer. Look for mixed age groups - music, reptile whe he can participate without age sorting. (If he doesn't play an instrument get him started. Also keyboarding if he doesn't yet.) Look for Adults, including family members who have friendship potential. It's not uncommon for gifted kids to have a parent be their best friend - not easy, but worthwhile.

    Step 3 -
    Change the school environment. Start meeting homeschoolers even if you never will homeschool as a way to meet other parents of gifted kids. Look hard at finances/private schools. Don't say a word about the possible diagosises when you are shopping for private schools. They do their own assesments and draw their own conclusions.

    Step 4 -
    If you think that there is a 2E issue, explore it further: "Dual Diagnosis and MisDiagnosis" by Webb is a good basic book. You may want to get started on the testing "wheel of fortune." Personally I'd explore private school/homeschooling first because many of the labels only matter in the particular context your child finds himself in. (ADHD, oppositional) OTOH Auditory Processing and Visual Processing issues are worth checking out if they seem likely.
    Here's a link to a really cute lecture on Giftedness as a Disability in and of itself:
    http://www.mislabeledchild.com/midas%20touch%20final.pdf

    Write back and say how old he is, what the school is suggesting, what his friendships are like outside of school, what alternative school situations are on the horizon.

    Remember - this takes time, you can't do it all at once. If you think that you should be able to fix it all now, take a look at your own personal relationship with perfectionism - LOL!

    Love and More Love ('cause that's what it takes)
    Trinity


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    kayl29 Offline OP
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    Thanks for replying everyone.
    First of all my son is 10 1/2 years. Second is I am a physical therapist and have worked with kids who have SI problems.
    I have read Webbs book; I have read lots of books, I have also read many of the articles from SENG(very worthwhile) Every since he has been little like days old I noticed an extreme increase in alertness-mostly visual, auditory, tactile. Unfortunately since he was little- educators and other family members have wanted to dx zachary with a variety of dx. If I had gone along with some of their notions he would have been dx'd pervasive dx, aspergers, ADD/HD etc and or auditory processing or all of the above. His MD who is very involved pretty much scoffed at the ideas.

    What was an ongoing problem with some educators was they thought they were always right and were quite unprofessional. It became useless d/t less than open mindedness on their part. The only thing that has made sense to me was possibly SI-( I considered it numerous times) it was never suggested by any of them- (until the other day). It has not interfered with education at all so there has never been a low acheiving issue. He attends school in California but in a school district with many high achievers(silicon valley). He is able to perform in the at above average range with little to no effort. The only issue is at times behavior. Over the past couple of years he has articulated very well that the playground or loud music/noise bother him. So that he cannot think as well- resulting in behavior that lands him in trouble. If people talk to him he sometimes will start to talk louder and louder as he gets excited and as their voice volume increases. In general he is a very loving, happy, overly enthusiatic child who is full of expression and creativity.

    So I feel like a clueless parent as this should have been elementary to me but many people and educators went down these other avenues. I think intuitively I did many of the things that one would do for SI kids in our daily life( it was part my nature), --the reason it came up again was my son's new principal who had a few runs in with him noted some of these issues and suggested SI, at that point I revistited everything again-for the 10th time probably. I have been reading about the increased sensitivity in the gifted etc; as a parent and as someone who has worked with SI children do they(experts) think they are the same or not(SI versus increased sensitivity in gifted). I at this point have my own theory after obviously much confusion, reading, thinking.
    Thanks again and any ideas thoughts are really appreciated.
    Karen


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    Karen,

    We experience the intensity, extroversion and activity of life with our 10 yr old DD. I really do think that intensity of thought, feeling and reaction is the hallmark of our gifted kids.

    Our DD has used earplugs at sporting events and Bose noise cancelling earphones during tests. She has not had a tag in her clothes since she was 3 months old!

    We also experience the volume control issue: talking over others to be sure she is heard.

    The behavior problems generally only surfaced at school when she is asked to do "meaningless assignments". Thankfully, full grade acceleration and a very rigorous independent prep school have helped with that.

    We continue to be challenged every day to appreciate the creativity, emotional sensitivity and extremely well developed sense of morality and justice that are this child.

    It has helped to reframe the behaviors: instead of stubborn, I see her as persistent, working toward her goals. Instead of over-sensitive I try to appreciate her intuition about others.

    You see what I mean. It does not change her, just my perceptions and acceptance. Good luck!

    Susan


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    Kayl29 -
    Sorry - I didn't mean to tell you stuff you already know! First of all, congradulate yourself for all the reading and work you've already done - picture what your son would have been like without all that.

    I'm tantalized that you have your own opinions about SI in giffted - same or different - please share what you've figured out so far.

    Have you read the SI article in uniquely gifted?
    Uniquely Gifted : Identifying and Meeting the Needs of the Twice Exceptional Student (An Avocus Advocacy in Education Title) (Paperback)
    by Kiesa Kay (Author), Kay Kiesa (Editor)

    I related to that article for my DS10 much more than "out of sync child."

    I also recall reading The Sensory-Sensitive Child: Practical Solutions for Out-of-Bounds Behavior (Hardcover)
    by Karen A. Smith (Author), Karen R. Gouze (Author) though it didn't do much for me, I believe one of the authors is an OT, and the prologe about the "professional as parents" was good.

    Personally, i would look for a good OT who specialises in SI and is "gifted-compatible." Golly - attend CE courses and meet the gurus if you have to!

    I wouldn't suggest providing therapy for your own kid, and certianly not doing the evaluation. At 10 years old, these gifted kids can be in "mental puberty" if not physical puberty also. You are still centerally important, but village building is super important now.

    How you ever had DS tested? I would consider a trip to Boulder Colorodo for the full IQ/achievement tests if you've never gone that route. It's possible that a more challenging curricula will even out those behavior problems. I just started my DS10 in private prep school, and he seems more contented and light-hearted. ((Not all extroverts are life of the parties.))

    Have you thought about school situation? How about Saturday Enrichment? I'm guessing that your location has an active gifted group?

    Please try not to be hard on yourself - parenting isn't supposed to be done in isolation, but with kids that don't fit the mold, here can seem to be precious little choice -

    Oh - How far are you from Annemarie Roper?

    Love and More Love -
    Trinity


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    kayl29 Offline OP
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    My opinions about SI and the gifted- I think tnat many are very sensitive to their enviroment. I also think that there maybe a correlation at times with degree of sensitivity and IQ level. My son's pediatrician noted when he was days old that he was overly alert. He started to track by two weeks; initially I thought he was not hearing and compensating by over using his sight. I spoke to his MD but she assured me he had been tested and he was fine.

    Later we noted He was overly sensitive to sound also. To the point that he would scream for hours if something loud went off - ie. fire alarm; attempted to take him to sesame street live at 2 1/2y- bad idea- had to leave. At 2 yrs he He would cry if someone hit someone else in a playgroup( not him). He became profoundly concerned with poverty and societal woes at 4 yrs. as far as academics he loves to learn, I am quite sure he could self teach himself mostly anything.

    Last year d/t we took him to be tested for some gifted program- outside school. She gave him a WISR and his Full scale score was 151; verbal and perf were basically the same score. From what I have read/learned since; to get an actual accurate score he should have the stanford-binet done.

    Anyways this year at school is going okay- we always have issues at school. This yr he decided to definitely test boundaries and he needed time to get adjusted. So far I think his teacher gets him and at times is amused by his antics(to a point).
    Through this all I am actually thinking about going back to school to get my psych degree also.
    thank for all the replies


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    Karen -
    Your son sounds like mine, except yours is a whole 'nother level of giftedness beyond mine. I reccomend that you apply for the Young Scholar Program. I've found that be getting to know other kids that are somewhat "like my son" I can see my own son more clearly.

    There are also lots of opportunities for playdates - if traveling is a possibility. Have you thought about early college? What do you do in the summers? As for suggestions for what to do with your son - what have you found so far that makes him happy?

    As for diagnosis - after doing as much as you can for the SI, you may have to settle for the phrase asynchrouous development or "2Eish" as we moms sometimes say.

    Love and More Love,
    Trinity


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    My son is introverted but he has very strong OEs, too. His neuropsychologist says his body is "young". We use OT techniques to help with the sensory integration. We brush with a surgeon's brush on his arms and front of his legs and back. We roll him tight in a blanket and roll him around. We "sandwich" him in bear hugs to provide total body stimulation. We do the "infinity walk". We swing and spend 30 minutes 3 times a week running up and down the play area of the local park.

    He has inattentive type ADHD and these things do seem to be helping.

    We also give him Omega 3 and 6 fatty acids, play "sensory" cds at bedtime...etc.

    We are in a "wait and see" period, but the initial results are positive.


    Willa Gayle
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    What's an infinity walk? I've heard of the other things.


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    The infinity walk is essentially tracking a figure 8 in such a way as to always keep your face forward, causing it to go left and right as you walk.

    Picture an 8 on its side. Place yourself in the middle junction. You would start either up and to the left or up and to the right. Then your head will not have to turn to watch a spot, card, picture...etc.

    The first time I did it I stumbled and bumbled and got dizzy. I am still very slow at it, but am progressing. Mite is doing great and it really helps him memorize things -- spelling list, Bible verses, etc.

    The whole thing is supposed to be helping the left brain and right brain communicate and develop the cerebellum.

    google infinity walk to find a better explanation.


    Willa Gayle
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    This is very similar to what happened with our son. Hopefully, our experience may be helpful. Our son is also profoundly gifted and very sensitive (no vacuum cleaners, no tags on clothing, no Disneyland, etc.). We visited Annemarie Roeper (she is in Northern California) and she recommended part-time community college.

    Our son, Evan, started community college part time at age 11 and was just admitted full time (he just turned 13). Going to college has relieved all of the issues he was having with noise, uncontrolled environments, kids who cannot control themselves, and intellectual challenge. Since starting college Evan has not had any stomach aches, moodiness, big upsets, or use of coping mechanisms. The school environment exacerbates SI issues. Moving to an adult environment such as college eliminates this environment and puts your son in control.

    I would highly recommend community college for your son. Just start out part time and see how it goes. Since we started Evan has never missed a day, never been late, has a 4.0 GPA, and is taking Calculus, English Literature, Psychology, and Music Appreciation this semester.

    In California, it is very easy to start community college and it is free. Just go to the nearest one and take the matriculation exams which will place him into the appropriate English and Math classes. Sign up for a class, and you will see that the professors and students are very accepting and encouraging. They treat our son as a peer in the classroom and as a little brother outside of class (they are very protective of him). This route works especially well for PG extroverts who like to participate in class discussion, give oral presentations, and meet new people, which it sounds like your son does.

    Lastly, the academic rigor of the coursework works well for PGs because the course is taught to the syllabus, not watered down to the level of all of the students. For example, in Evan's precalculus class, half of the class dropped by the second month. Also, all of the classes are taught by people with a masters or Ph.D. in their field. As you must know, profoundly gifted kids ask questions which can only be answered by an expert. So again, this gives them what they need.

    Good luck,
    David

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    Wow David,
    Sounds like California really has it's act together. I'm so glad it worked for your family! Sounds like your son is thriving!
    Does he find that the other students support his intellectual curiosity? That's the only drawback I've hear about the Community College.
    Best Wishes,
    Trinity


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    Trinity, your resources are amazing. That Mislabeled Child lecture is just what I needed to try to explain to the dorky IEP team that Mite IS GIFTED!!!!!!

    Some of them get it (principal, sped coordinator) others don't (classroom and sped teachers).

    off topic I know, but I just want to thank you yet again for your help!!!



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    Yes, the other students do support him. In fact, he has led study groups at our house with groups of students.

    At community college in California you find a variety of students: top students who are acing community college and will transfer to a UC school, students who are struggling but persistent, adult students, and some high school students trying to get ahead in math.

    The top students and high school students (who are of course very bright) respect Evan and treat him as a peer in class. The
    struggling students treat him as a little brother and, we hear, are a bit intimidated by him. The adult students are like an aunt or uncle to him and they ask us a lot of questions about the route Evan took to get where he is.

    Evan is very savvy socially and understands the nuances of social and group situations. He somehow understands what everyone else is thinking, and he has a lot of leadership skills and charisma. These are all things my wife and I lack.

    When he starts class on the first day, a lot of students think he is one of the older student's kids. After a few days they realize he is taking the class. He tries not to answer questions the first week, and he never answers anything that would make another student feel bad. He also does not brag, etc. He is careful with what he says and with his body language and therefore makes friends easily. He likes to be the center of attention with all eyes on him, yet he is very subtle about how he manages this. He maintains a fairly large network of friends.

    I think the community college he goes to is a good one for acceptance of younger students as well because of the mix of ages and life experiences in the student body. Four year universities are made up of students who have stayed in an institutional environment (school) most of their life.

    Generally, though, I think that community college versus high school is the big difference. High school is full of cliques and immaturity. Community college has students paying to be there and an environment that does not put up with misbehavior or bad attitudes. Everyone is older and more mature.

    One student who has been a friend to Evan and will transfer to USC in the fall said that he would have been intimidated by Evan when he was in high school, but in a college environment there is no competition for grades or social status so it is a completely different situation.

    Another factor is picking good classes. Using ratemyprofessors.com you can hand pick good classes with great professors. In such an environment all of the students thrive and bond.

    --David

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    Good for you guys! It is so difficult to accomodate older gifted kids. You are lucky to be in a position you are in! Best of luck. Maybe one day our kids will find a cure for cancer...
    Ania

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    wow! this topic has skipped and bounced all over the place. what fun!

    I just wanted to add to Ania's last comment....

    maybe one day our kids will find the cure for gifted education!!!


    :^)


    Willa Gayle
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