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Hello... new here and glad to see so much recent activity!

My 8 year old has been accepted into G&T public school system and JH CTY program.

All this started in December when he wrote his teachers (he's in dual immersion) a 1.5 page letter begging for more math with justification why we would all benefit from them teaching more.

Looking at his scores he was 99% on standardized MAP test.

I homeschooled one afternoon a week and got him a math tutor.

Now finished grade 2, I am advocating for him to be placed in grade 4 math only upon entrance into grade 3. I suggested the school pretest him to be sure he will demonstrate mastery.

They said NO. I reviewed the grade 3 workbooks and it made me want to cry. He will receive ONE day a week G&T programming for math, about 40 min. with peers at his equal level.

I don't think this is enough! My son WANTS more, WANTS to learn... WANTS to pretest... he WANTS it!

I am prepared to continue our homeschooling should the school not be able to offer a more suitable option.

Just wondering what advice others who have charted these waters might have!!!

Would it be terrible to go to grade 4 math??? Would it be fine to homeschool one afternoon and have him in their gifted & talented???

All comments welcome!!

Laura

Welcome Laura!

I love that your son advocated for himself! Good for him. Too bad the school isn't helping him though.

I'm a little confused by a couple of your comments. You say that your son was accepted in a GT public school. Is the curriculum advanced in any way? From what you said about the pullout, it doesn't sound like this is a full-time GT program. Are there other options in your area if this school doesn't work out so well? How is your son in other subjects (in case a full grade skip might be easier)?

Does the district have any policies on acceleration? Maybe you can find something on their website.

Was the homeschooling afternoon dedicated to math? Where does your son fall on the scale of MAP results for higher grades? (I'll try to post a link to the MAP tables and you can find where his score falls in 3rd/4th/5th.) Here's the chart. Look on p. 145, and you will see end of year math data. 99% will encompass everything 217 and above for grade 2. So, if your DS scored 217, he was in the 89th percentile for grade 3; if he scored 222, he'd be in the 95th percentile for 3rd and the 78th for grade 4. MAP norms charts

Did the school give any indication as to why they wouldn't let your son go to higher math? When we tried to get higher math for our DS7 at the beginning of the year, we got the excuse of "the classes don't meet at the same time" and in our case we also got, "his writing is so bad he wouldn't be able to keep up."

Sorry about the confusion... and sorry this will be soooo long!

In grade 2, those who test 95% or higher get "enrichment". He was getting that, until...

He is in dual immersion. They claimed that b/c the class schedules shifted (2nd half of year flipped so he did English first then Spanish) that he could no longer get services b/c he had to spend that time in Spanish... where they learn all the math and that was the same time as "enrichment".

So... we pulled out anyway during Spanish class once a week despite what the school said about him HAVING to be in Spanish and I homeschooled him. He remained one of the higher performing Anglo students speaking, writing & reading Spanish.

At first we did just math... but then moved to logic skills, critical thinking, analogies (he's bright all around but excels in math)... formally finished up with a more broad curriculum. I used Time4learning grades 3&4 concepts.

Now going into 3rd grade, it's the formal GT program for which they had to score 130 or higher on the Cogat. I find out the actual score on Wed. but I already know he tested in b/c the principal told me, without telling me, when we spoke of my ideas for grade 3.

It is a PT program where kids have one "seminar" in the morning, get pulled out during the day for 4 days of the week.

He is the first dual class so they originally were saying he wouldn't get pulled out for math. But, I think they know he has to as I believe there will be 4 other students also testing in... too many to ignore!

BUT... it'll only be once a week. I don't know their policy on acceleration... only that they haven't been supportive of my idea.

Their reasoning was that the "math coordinator" said grade 3 was a "critical year" and that the other GT kids are around the same % as he is and I'll be "pleasantly surprised" with what they're going to offer... but they have no schedule or answers for what they'll offer.

the schedule will be a nightmare b/c of dual immersion. I don't care! I figure, let's try it... it'll be easier to go back than move forward... and again, seeing the workbook - he's mastered that.

I have another meeting tomorrow with the dual imm. coordinator who has historically been more supportive. So, if they won't pretest and move him for math class, I want to know what they'll plan on doing during those 4 days where he's sitting there drawing b/c he finished his math early.

Also, the GT teacher, when I asked what I was looking at with a MAP 99%, she said, "Well, there's something there but nothing I'd say 'OH WOW' too."

WTF? Didn't find that abbreviation on the board!

That is great news that there are other kids testing at the same levels. I would definitely advocate to keep those kids together.

There is a possibility that you will indeed be pleasantly surprised (I'm primarily an optimist), but it would be nice if the math coordinator would tell you! I can guess at the critical yearness of 3rd - that is when they want your child's scores for the state testing... I would try to get a reason as to why they will not pretest your son. It makes no sense to make him sit through a year of math he already knows.

As for the "wow" factor, if your son's score is just at the 99th percentile, then that's really a great score, but I can see how the GT teacher wouldn't be blown away as it's not super advanced into the upper grades. (But I'm speculating, since I don't know the number, and 99th percentile is still great, don't get me wrong.)

Laura! It sounds like you are talking about MY school district! CRAZY! Exactly what I am going through right NOW!

The principal said that that the Math teacher she asigned DD9 for 4th grade is so good that he can teach higher grades of math IN the 4th grade classroom and this is why she can't skip to 5th. BUT WILL HE? Just because he CAN doesn't mean he WILL and I think we have heard this before!

I don't want to take another chance here! I am thinking about meeting with the teacher for next year, before the end of this year (8 days left) and asking him specifics and getting the curriculum for 4th grade so she can start 4th in the 5th grade book.

I'll let you know how that goes! Maybe you could do the same!
AND IF I'm not happy with the answers, I'll push harder for the skip!

We have our work cut out for us!

This is one of the few reasons we chose not to do immersion with ds5. It is the first year of the Chinese immersion and they couldn't guarantee they would be able to accelerate in math. Math is taught in Chinese.. there is no teacher yet for the grade higher then he would be in any year to teach it to him.

well... I just had the meeting with the dual immersion coordinator. I do think it went well.

My first concern was that they were not going to pull the dual kids for the GT math program - but as I understand it, they will. So he will get 60 min./week of that service.

Through discussing the other 4 days - I see that in dual they receive about 40 min. instruction in math... which is less than in other classes.

I was offered a pre-school meeting with the teacher & coordinator of dual to formulate a plan on extension activities for my son as well as looking at specific ways to keep him engaged, coping skills that he needs for all of his life (how to deal with others who don't learn as quickly, what he can do to help himself - Habits Of Mind stuff) and alternative activities that will allow him to think about the concepts they learn at deeper levels of understanding.

I liked all this... it seems like developing a much more broad based package than just accelration in computation.

Of course, I will be monitoring things closely and am hoping that they'll allow me to have a hand in the extention activities (I have some GREAT resources) and follow the curriculum.

We also identified the need to have homework that matches his learning ability as none of that really has anything to do with the language piece.

What do you all think? Am I being snowed? Could this actually work?

I want him challenged but don't want to have to do it outside school. It's too much that way and interferes with sports, socials and family time!!

Hi Laura -
Immersion programs can be a terrific way to help kids who are strong academically not get bored, but the structure can have ridgities that get in the way too.

I would encourage you to look at the 'overall' picture: "Are my child's learning needs being met in school overall? What can I do to 'tweak' the picture so that it will be a 'good enough' fit?"

Partial homeschooling might be the way to go, although if there are truely peers in his classroom, learning with peers has advantages.

I would want: The actual score of the MAP in Math and Reading, so you can look at those charts and ask - where would my child be barely in the top 10% of his class? Your local school system might be very different than the national norms - so ask to see 3 other MAP scores within 5 points of your child's score - not percentile!!! (They can black out the names of the kids)

Then I would request, in writing, an IQ test. This is to help 'predict' that his educational needs will continue to be more 'intense' than other children.

Subject accelerations are wonderful, but sometimes they need full skips or partial homeschooling or afterschooling in the mix to make them work. Sometimes subject accelerations create awkward situations later: My brothers and a few of their friends went up a grade in Math for 1st grade, and continued until 6th grade, when the 7th grade schoolbuilding was across town, so they just did 6th grade Math for a second time.

So I'm suggesting to step back and look carefully at the whole picture. It may be that something as simple as coming in once a week to do challenging Math problems with the top MAP scoring kids in 3rd and 4th grade will give your child what they need. Or not - you might really need a full skip, or more.

The fact that looking at the 3rd grade math workbook makes you want to cry is important data. But look at the 4th grade math workbook first before you make any wistful decisions. Even better, if possible - visit the 3rd and 4th grade Math classroom and observe.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I was still working on my post and missed that you had your meeting. Good that they are trying. Make sure to write down the highlights and what they agreed to and email it to everyone involved, including yourself - it's time to start 'the paper trail.'

I agree that your child shouldn't have to waste his time all day at school. You might be being snowed - even if the school folks have the best of intentions. It all depends on what level of giftedness your son is actually dealing with.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Grinity,

Very good advice - thank you. I have not seen the 4th grade math course work.

I have been told that there are a number of GT kids his age testing similarly and that they will be together. I receive his MAP's today where they only print the national norms, not the district norms.

Either way, I do think maybe working with the teacher and provided that they/we can get the right material during grade 3 math, then he will be OK.

I do see the value in developing a skill set than advancing his computation - but then again, more value if he needs advancement in both.

Come grade 5/6 he can move into a higher math class as needed. What I see is that the amount of acceleration he might miss out on until then does not outweigh the language component. I can HS and have tutors to meet his needs to bridge the gap in math... but I can't make him bilingual - for sure!!!

I am afraid to request an IQ test... it seems that outside of the guy I met with today, I am the only one that sees how smart he is and/or capable, competent... MaMa syndrome.