Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy School psychologists

Any experience with the school psychologists & your gifted child? I'm not sure how they work with the gifted coordinator in most schools. Who identifies, who tests, who helps make plans for the childs education?
I've met with the gifted teacher, I've met with the regular teacher, tomorrow I'm going to drop in at the 'chat with the counselor' monthly open visitation time. She oversees the counselor in training who works with GS8 on behavior issues.

At times I just feel clueless about everything the school does. The gifted teacher mentioned some of the testing that is routinely done, but glossed over it so quickly I got the impression I wasn't supposed to know about it.

Oooohhh, I *loved* Columbo! Now I have to get in character for tomorrow morning...

The beauty of no-child left behind is the language - I believe - legally applies to gifted children. any child that needs special services in any sense. If we return to public and no-child is still in place, i would demand (plesantly) a WEP or and IEP (some kind of writen plan to enumerate how my child's special needs will be met). It is my limited understanding that - while it may not be offered - if you ask for one they have to spend the time to craft one. Maybe someone else can put some meat on that thought or point of if i'm way off base.

And I agree... just keep asking questions. And if it were me, I'd keep asking myself is any success my child achieves of merit if it is significantly less than their potential.

Uh keep in mind, my kids are still little :-) so I could be full of poop.

Believe me, it's easier said than done. Only a few states (Pennsylvania and ?) provide IEPs for GT kids. I don't think NCLB is going to help you on this because your child won't look "behind".

IEPs are not just there for the asking. Schools typically dig in their heels at this sort of "demand".

Cathy

TN still does IEPs for GT kids with no problem. Don't know what other states do though.

But legally - aren't they obligated (this only coming from a attorney friend with an interest in this not her area)? I'm notdisagreeing but trying to see what a poop hole will fall in if we switch to public.

It's called "No Child Left Behind" not "Every Child Gets Ahead" for a reason--the ones ahead basically get ignored.

Very funny Kriston!!!!

Kickball, I love your gratuitous use of the word poop.

NCLB applies to and covers emotional issues, I've been told. Wouldn't that apply to GT kids that are suffering emotionally due to boredom and repetitive work?

I'm not trying to be funny, I really think there is some verbage in there somewhere that covers that, I havent' been able to find it, but I havent' looked to hard.
Maybe I'll attempt to find something this weekend.

Incog

Okay, okay, I can't wait til this weekend:

more recent piece of legislation aimed at all children and youth is the No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB) signed into law in 2002 by President Bush. In NCLB, the emotional well-being of all children is addressed and a specific section of the Act (Title V) outlines initiatives aimed at assuring the emotional well-being of America�s youth. With 53 million children in school and an estimated 20% of all children meeting criteria, at a point in time, for a diagnosable mental illness at a level of impairment that requires some type of intervention (Kutash et al., 2005), there is the potential that over 10 million children will need some type of help to meet the goals relating to emotional well-being in NCLB. These numbers reveal the scope of the challenge for the nation to meet the mental health needs of America�s school age children and youth.

From this link:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:O27UXiYcCDAJ:rtckids.fmhi.usf.edu/rtcpubs/study04/SBMHchapter5.pdf+nclb+emotional&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us

There it is, emotional well-being. Well, I think I can make a case that my child's emotional well being is harmed when he/or she is made to choose between appropriate school work or going to recess with the other kids.
That one's for you questions.

Now I just have to locate the original NCLB title V and read it.

More to come.

Incog

Okay, here is something else i found in the actual NCLB document:

A-Z INDEX
Part H � School Dropout Prevention


SEC. 1801 | SEC. 1802 | SEC. 1803

SEC. 1801. SHORT TITLE.

This part may be cited as the 'Dropout Prevention Act'.

SEC. 1802. PURPOSE.

The purpose of this part is to provide for school dropout prevention and reentry and to raise academic achievement levels by providing grants that �

(1) challenge all children to attain their highest academic potential; and

(2) ensure that all students have substantial and ongoing opportunities to attain their highest academic potential through schoolwide programs proven effective in school dropout prevention and reentry.

http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg15.html

Read number 2 carefully......... have substantial opportunity to attain highest academic potential effective in school drop-out prevention.

So, wouldn't a kid who realizes they already mastered the curriculum wonder why they were going to school and then,,,maybe,,,,,,,drop out?

Oh yeah, that happened to me.

Anyone else seeing this the same way I am?

I

Sorry so off. Just junk. The bridge between potential and services... it doesn't seem like it is cost - more attitudes. I loved the authors remarks in the time mag article from august i think - he made the analogy that people won't think that if they practiced enough they could be michael jordon but with raw intellectual potential it is a serious fobile to even elude to such a thing. It brings me back to a comment from an orginal post that this isn't going to be easy. i feel like i've done something wrong somehow and on the other i feel like this is just god's blessing on them... i'd love to stick my head in the sand.

speaking of junk, there is a lot to sort through. I'm going to read more on the weekend when I'm trying to fall asleep.
There is a referenced group called "at risk children" I'll have to see if it is more narrowly defined, if anyone knows, please let me know before I go into nclb-language-coma.

I'd assume if there were loopholes, some gifted organization somewhere would already have lawyers involved, right?

Is there any funding attached? I think that's the problem. It SOUNDS great to talk about the emotional well-being of kids and improving the drop-out rate, but if there's no $$$ attached, it's all just words.

And no one is thinking GT there, I'm positive, so even if there are funds available, they're not being used for GT kids because that's not the interpretation of the act that anyone (but us!) is taking.

I'd love to see you take that particular ball and run with it though, 'Neato! Boy, oh, boy! Would I love that!!!

OK, the Columbo approach got pretty much what I wanted.

I was not altogether surprised to find out that the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, meaning the school counselor was not aware GS8 was accepted into the gifted program, and the gifted teacher was not aware of GS8's background.
The counselor I spoke with has known GS8 for 3 years, but has not worked with him much. She has overseen the student counselors who have worked with him the last 2 years. We have graduate students from the local university doing internships(?) as counselors at the local schools. The official school counselor oversees their work.
Luckily the student counselor who has been seeing GS8 this year stopped by and we had a nice talk. The school counselor asked if he would be able to administer an IQ test. He was pretty excited about doing that. I think what he lacks in experience will be compensated by his knowlege of GS and his excitement about administering the test. He talked about how GS will really enjoy taking the test(I agree!), and how he'll plan it to work around GS's teachers schedule so he won't miss anything important in class, and how he'll break it up over a couple days. He commented favorably about GS's eagerness & drive to learn.

So, I got a little more insight on how disconnected the various services are. If nothing else, that just made me feel better about taking an active role in his education & school environment. Notice I split 'education' & 'school environment' apart. I've come to conclude very little education happens in the school environment for the children who are outside the 'norm'. We'll get IQ tests done at no cost to us. And we'll have a better idea of his strengths & weaknesses.

Way to go Columbo! Nice work! It sounds like a very favorable result.

So, are you going to loan out that overcoat and cigar to others?

No, I didn't ask which test would be used. I'm not sure if we have a school psychologist. I probably should have been a bit more clear about the student counselor. Not only does he report to the school counselor, he's actually under the authority of the university's psychology department. It's my understanding that he is working at the school as part of his education towards his doctorate in psychology. The student counselor GS had last year graduated with his doctorate at the end of last year and went to a residential program for troubled youths as a psychologist.

At this time, I'm hoping this IQ test will give us some insight into GS & his abilities. My plan is for GS to take the Explore in January to get an idea of his achievement level. We're so blasted busy, and he's happy in school right now, I didn't see any push to do the Explore this year.

Another thing that held me back on doing the Explore this year are his test scores over that last 2 years. The counselor pulled out his results from the Terra Nova at grade level 2.1. At that time his math percentile was 67%, reading was his top score in the 80's. At grade level 3.1, his Ohio Achievement test in reading almost topped out. Since then he's gained another year in reading level, up to 6.5. His ITBS math score taken at 3.4 grade level put him at the 98 percentile. Like I told his teachers & the counselors, he just seems to have exploded this year and is learning a LOT. If this is the beginning of an upward trend in his achievement, I want to be prepared. If this was just a blip on the radar, that's OK too. But I'm figuring even an IQ test administered by a student counselor will give us an idea about which it is.

Funding attached question. No I don't think there is funding attached... but the w/ the limited first goal of forcing a school's hand to draft a wep or iep for a gt kid. You guys found some great leverage. nothing like the fear of legal action just from citing the rules and knowing enough not to be spun back into your seat

The purpose of this part is to provide for school dropout prevention and reentry and to raise academic achievement levels by providing grants that

Grants provided, says so right there. How much and to who? The big money question. My school district isn't hurting for funds. My quest is to tie my child's unconventional learning needs to NCLB standards so they will feel more justified in making accomodations. Not so much so I can bring in a lawyer and crucify them. The principal is a good person. From their standpoint, though, they have to justify situations where they provide some things "extra" or "different" for the child.

I just got off the phone with the social worker regarding DD5 in K. She had observed her in class. Both teacher and Social worker find no issues.

We spoke at more length about specifics to DD and I did think she was listening. I asked her if she knew anything about overexcitabilities and to her credit she had admitted she had never heard about it. She said she would look into Dabrowski so we could have a better meeting with teacher and principal.

I look forward to a productive meeting next week.

Wish us luck

I

There is a great article about IEP in the March issue of Parent Guide. I think it is a Manhattan free magazine.

www.parentguidenews.com

Dottie, now that I think about it, the 'student counselor' probably has a higher education than the school counselor. The 'student counselor' is actually finishing his doctorate in psychology, I don't think school counselors have anywhere near that degree.
GS said the student counselor started the test yesterday. He did 4 parts and will do the other 6 parts next week. That sounds like the WISC, doesn't it?

He was telling me about doing something with blocks. I was driving and he was in the back seat so I didn't get a good idea of what he did.
The counselor had said he would do the test next week and tabulate the results over the weekend and get back with me. I think he took a look at the calendar and decided to speed it up if possible. He'll be at school next week, but then he has spring break for a week and the week after that, our school has a week of spring break. So, I'm guessing we'll get the results next week after GS completes the test, or in April when everyone is back from spring breaks.

Well, today the student counselor told GS8 that he would not be finishing the test, that he was only supposed to give IQ tests to kids who are struggling in school. That sounds odd to me, I'm guessing that since he doesn't have the PHD in his hand then he probably wouldn't be allowed to officially give the test. I'll contact him in a couple days.

So, I'm back to my original plan of doing the EXPLORE in Jan and decide if it's worth pursuing an IQ test then.

Oh, I'm sorry OHG! That's a shame. It sounded like such a good opportunity.

How do you feel about the change of plans? Is this a minor bump in the road or a major issue for you?

How disappointing! I was thinking about how lucky your grandson was and they robbed you.

Very minor bump in the road. I would have appreciated saving the bucks that an IQ test will cost, but if the test results from the student counselor wouldn't be accepted as valid, I'm glad he stopped.

I'm fine with this, I'm not sure we'd be doing anything differently for the rest of this year regardless of what the test results would have been.

Good for you OHG. This is somewhat confusing and frustrating for you I'm sure. You have great perspective on it. If you are interested in testing, I would encourage you to pursue it if it's an option.
For a couple of reasons.
First, the kids seem to LOVE the testing, they think it's really fun!
Also, it's helped me really put into perspective what my kids need in terms or education.
Even if you aren't planning to do anything differently this year.
Knowing the girls capabilities has helped me provide so many fun and appropriate after school activitites. I'm embarrased to say I wouldn't have thought of doing so otherwise.
Of course, it seems pretty clear you are aware of DGS's capabilities anyhow!

Incog