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    Wren #103047 05/22/11 01:49 PM
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    thanks Kcab. Couple of points I noted, since we have had posts debate. I read it was his teacher in second grade that pushed the radical acceleration to high school, not the parents. I had mentioned when you have high end PG, usually the system takes care of it before the parents.

    And, since we talked about differences for college. He left Fairfield U, because it was too easy, and opted for Yale.

    And when you are extreme, it is a great outcome. When you are high end but not in those extremes, it is harder to get the programs necessary.

    Ren


    CFK #103049 05/22/11 02:21 PM
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    Originally Posted by CFK
    Or could it be that things usually only work out this well (and you hear about it) when the schools are also involved and onboard? When it's not just the parents involved? Could there possibly be ten other extreme kids for everyone like this you hear about who were unable to get the radical acceleration they needed for this kind of outcome?

    I think you have too much faith in the "system".

    I agree. What I see in the posted article is a kid who had the good fortune have a highly supportive and aware family AND a school system that was flexible AND he lived in an area with college options. Great outcome for him... but sadly I know there are other kids out there with this kind of talent who aren't being recognized and aren't getting the adapted education that they need.

    Last edited by passthepotatoes; 05/22/11 02:43 PM.
    Wren #103052 05/22/11 04:37 PM
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    You say could? But statiscally, does anyone know what 180 IQ looks like in decimal places? Maybe there are, maybe there aren't. You have that kid at Hunter. He is one in a school for gifted with 200 kids per year and 7th through 12th grade. They found one in the sample set where most highly gifted kids in a city of 8 million try for spots in 7th grade.

    Ren

    Wren #103057 05/22/11 05:00 PM
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    Originally Posted by Wren
    You say could? But statiscally, does anyone know what 180 IQ looks like in decimal places? Maybe there are, maybe there aren't. You have that kid at Hunter. He is one in a school for gifted with 200 kids per year and 7th through 12th grade. They found one in the sample set where most highly gifted kids in a city of 8 million try for spots in 7th grade.

    Ren

    Was I the "you" in this post?
    I'm not sure I follow what you are saying. Are you wondering whether there are other students this gifted?
    Yes, there are. I do not believe all of them have been correctly identified or that their educational needs are met. Some kids who are very gifted look more like troublemakers or they misdiagnosed with disorders like autism to oppositional defiance.

    I'd suggest reading the Miraca Gross's book on highly gifted children. Also, the Davidson's book Genius Denied may also be helpful in providing understanding that it is not the case that the "system" always identifies and helps PG kids.

    Wren #103065 05/22/11 05:52 PM
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    I think it was someone else that suggested there could be 10 others not identified for everyone that is.

    I have read both books Potatoes. And I still think when you have a "little man Tate", it is different than a PG kid with an IQ of 150-160. And that was my point.

    It would be interesting to find out about the GIGA society, I think that is their name and find out if they were all identified young.

    Ren

    Wren #103067 05/22/11 06:09 PM
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    It seems that 180-190 would be one in a million depending on the ceilings. So you could have 300 in the US but that would be at each age level. Based on the curve, you could have 3-5 in each grade, statiscally, in the US.

    Ren

    Wren #103068 05/22/11 06:14 PM
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    Originally Posted by Wren
    I have read both books Potatoes. And I still think when you have a "little man Tate", it is different than a PG kid with an IQ of 150-160. And that was my point.

    It sort of seems like you are assuming that if kids are super PG then everyone notices and it all works out. If you've read the two books I mentioned you will find several examples where that was not the case. It is not at all fair to assume that every "Little Man Tate" looks like a genius. In the wrong environment with the wrong supports he may just look like total brats or like they are nuts.

    If your example is Hunter - well yes, they I think we can feel pretty confident they will know it when they see it. If you are talking about a kid with the same kind of intelligence born to a working class minority family in a rural area or maybe a kid who is disabled in some way. Then, no it may well go without detection or without being addressed appropriately.

    Wren #103069 05/22/11 06:16 PM
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    Originally Posted by Wren
    It seems that 180-190 would be one in a million depending on the ceilings. So you could have 300 in the US but that would be at each age level. Based on the curve, you could have 3-5 in each grade, statiscally, in the US.

    Ren

    I don't have a link handy, but hopefully someone else does. There is some thought that there are bubbles at both end of the normal bell curve. There certainly seem to be more children out at the right end of the curve than we'd expect statistically.

    At any rate, we probably should not talk in terms of those old IQ numbers because it is confusing as there are no accurate current tests that use that scale and no real way to differentiate that through IQ testing.

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    Originally Posted by passthepotatoes
    It sort of seems like you are assuming that if kids are super PG then everyone notices and it all works out.
    Yes. In my personal opinion based on the gestalt of what I've read (though of course there isn't longitudinal research on this specific question, there couldn't be), a person probably only gets to be super-PG if their educational environment is suitable for them, in addition to their being who they are at birth. So I think Wren's is to some extent a self-fulfilling prophecy: if you went looking for, say, 16yos who were super-PG but hadn't been noticed, it's highly unlikely they'd have got a sufficiently suitable environment to enable them to still be identifiable as super-PG at that age, even if earlier they'd had the potential to be so.


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    Wren #103089 05/23/11 01:46 AM
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    According to what I read, there are tests for those kinds of ceilings. Just like Giga Society disdains the SB thinking too many kids are identified as PG and won't accept the results.

    If Harvard and MIT have programs for really young kids, which I assume means more than 1. You have kids like the one at Hunter and Columbia and this other kid at Fairfield and Yale, you can cover 5+ kids per year. Since they seem to hit the news, whether it is Kit Armstrong, or this girl who graduated from Stoneybrook at 14, about ten years ago, or the posting about the MD/PhD student at U of Chicago, who is all of 12 years old. The parents didn't push for this. No MD program is going to let you in because the parents push.

    Ren

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