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    #10286 03/04/08 09:36 AM
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    Finally emailed the teachers yesterday asking that DS place out of second grade math and asking that something be done about his discomfort in the classroom (both in terms of the noise and distractions of the other kids and the level of instruction). We'll see what if anything they can do. We've asked for access to his distance learning courses during the day to give him some respite from the frustrations of the classroom. Meanwhile, his tutor and OT recommend homeschooling immediately. DS would like nothing better, but we're not quite there.

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    Any sense about the reception of your request? Do you think you're likely to get a favorable response or resistance?


    Kriston
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    Questions-

    Have you connected with any local homeschoolers yet? If not, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get to know a few families in the area who are homeschooling, so that you won't have the social aspect as a big question mark.

    We often have a family drop in on a support group meeting to check us out before they pull their kids from school. I think it can be very reassuring and help people to decide.

    Good luck with the advocacy efforts!


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    You know questions, I am on the verge at least once a week. I was on the verge yesterday when I have asked Ghost what he did that day in his LA class. You would not believe the response. Thankfully, apparently the teacher will be gone next year but will they find a better one. I am on the verge of going in and fighting again, but we are in March already, by mid May I am taking my kids to Europe and at this point I am trying to find accomodations for both of my kids for next year. I am trying not to stirr the water so much so the school will be accomodating, if you know what I mean.
    I was on the verge of starting HS three years ago, but I thought I can't each my kids English :-) Stupid me!
    Go with your gut feeling. If it does not work, you can always go back. Start Hs part time - public schools will allow for partial enrollment.

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    Not all public schools. It depends on local policy.

    Our local schools don't allow it. Ah, would that they did! That would solve so many problems!


    Kriston
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    Oh, I did not know. In Utah by law they have to.

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    I think they all should. After all, I pay my taxes for the schools just like anyone else, so if I want my kids to go to art class and P.E. and play at recess, I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to have them do that. But it's all or nothing here.

    It stinks! frown Partial enrollment is a lot nicer policy.


    Kriston
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    They have to here also (MN) by law, but I've heard schools can make it very difficult to do so.

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    I am SO nervous...

    Yes, Lorel, I did meet a local homeschooler at the conference this weekend, and I've been following two local homeschooling Yahoo groups. I know there is skating once a week at a local ice rink, so that's something. And the local library (which is a great library) runs homeschooling book groups for age 7-9.

    Ania, did you ever look into Exeter? That was you who posted that long ago, wasn't it? Now that I "know" you better, and know more about your DS, it might be worth a serious look. And there is generous financial aid available. And always a handful of kids who score perfect SAT's (at least in the old days...) Of course, your son still has a few years to go, right?

    Finally, if we could do partial homeschooling, it would be perfect. I'd send him to recess, health, PE, art and music. I'd do the rest.

    Of course, I haven't gotten into the nitty-gritty details yet - like the fact that I am working ...

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    Originally Posted by kimck
    They have to here also (MN) by law, but I've heard schools can make it very difficult to do so.

    I truly don't understand why. I mean, do they think HSing families will quit HSing and send their kids to school if the school makes life difficult enough for them? Get real!

    It's just mean-spirited nastiness, I think, and it's a shame.


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    Sorry questions - I was also going to say that I can totally relate. We've had a few weeks this year when I was going to just pull DS out immediately. Right now we're just biding our time until the end of the year. DS loves school socially. I have the feeling he is getting more disruptive and not participating willingly any more. I'm slowly networking and researching and am quite satisfied with the local resources and social opportunities I've found for homeschooling. So it wouldn't hurt to do a little digging in this area. That sounds very stressful. I hope the school can help you, at least for the short term!

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    It's so hard to watch that happen, kimck and questions. I'm sorry.

    Have you officially decided to HS, kimck, or not? It seems like you're kind of on the fence still, but maybe that's just my perception because you decided not to pull your DS out in an emergency HSing situation after all.


    Kriston
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    Well, I'm not on the fence! I think it's a done deal for next year. I've got a pile of homeschooling stuff on my kitchen table! DH is still on the fence a bit though. eek

    We also need to decide in the next week and 1/2 if we are going to try and reapply for the local GT magnet for next year. I think we're both leaning no on that one. Odds of getting in are very small, and it really is no magic bullet for DS at this point.

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    I am on the verge also.

    My mother-in-law is visiting for a week and she can�t believe the **** we encounter in a typical week due to the fact that DS is advanced for grade. She has seen the gamut from DS doing practically all the work for a group project from writing the script (not as the scribe), typing the script at a group member�s house while the rest of the kids played guitar hero, being cornered by the host�s mother with a �So you are Mr. Smarty-Pants/I bet I was as smart as you at your age� sort of exchange. Then taking everyone�s costumes and costume props home and organizing them in individual bags with each person�s name on it, making the prop tree and transporting it to school.

    To be fair, the other group members did decorate the prop pot that DS made and emailed the script that he typed up at the other student�s house-sarcasm intended.

    My husband was ready to contact the teacher to discuss all this when DS came home from school to report that one student had memorized the lines (that DS wrote) despite the team agreeing last week that they would all use the scripts. The teacher was impressed by this and stated that she would give extra credit to anyone who went "above and beyond" the group effort and specifically said, �That doesn�t mean you, DS�.

    Serenity Now!

    I also emailed the teacher, but I doubt that will change anything.

    I was advised a long time ago to homeschool! I should have done it.

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    Originally Posted by Dottie
    ...but you'd have to have your child at school a different time each day, and for several different slots even within a day, depending on what you were looking for, kwim?


    I live literally a 2-minute *walk* away from school. I can stand in my yard and see the building. So being there several times a day--if it meant my DS got what he needed--would be FINE with me!



    Kriston
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    OMG, delbows! It sounds like it's time for a talk with the principal re: that little project. Egad! That's unbelievable!


    Kriston
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    Originally Posted by kimck
    Well, I'm not on the fence! I think it's a done deal for next year. I've got a pile of homeschooling stuff on my kitchen table! DH is still on the fence a bit though. eek

    We also need to decide in the next week and 1/2 if we are going to try and reapply for the local GT magnet for next year. I think we're both leaning no on that one. Odds of getting in are very small, and it really is no magic bullet for DS at this point.


    This is a busy thread! I didn't even see that you had responded, kimck! Sorry!

    What's DH's worry/worries? Why isn't he fully on board? Is it anything we can help with?

    K-


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    Quote
    We've had a few weeks this year when I was going to just pull DS out immediately. Right now we're just biding our time until the end of the year. Kimck

    Best luck to all the future home-school moms on the board!


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    Hmmm, I'm on the fence also about home schooling. DH is also on the fence but worried about the financial aspect of going down to a single income with some sort of part time work from me on evenings and weekends. It would probably have to be fast food in this area. I've been looking into work from home options.

    I used to be worried about my ability to teach DS. Now I have a lot more confidence on that front. it is the financial aspect holding us back.

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    I'd say for us the biggest concerns are the social ones. We don't have a neighborhood of kids, and left to his own devices, DS would stay indoors all day. He does like to play with other kids, but doesn't have that much opportunity to do so. That said, he does have a small group of boys he likes in his class, but all year has only had two playdates, due to the other moms' schedules, the kids schedules, and whatever other reason. I think most of the other kids live in neighborhoods where there are lots of kids so their parents don't really bother with playdates that require scheduling. To DH's credit, he has asked if maybe we should move, as DS is missing out on his childhood. And it was DH who suggested homeschooling so that at least DS would be happy. I can't tell you how huge a turnaround this is in DH's thinking...

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    Originally Posted by CFK
    In case you end up keeping him in school, for your peace of mind, I just wanted to say that from what I've seen on the boards, and in various readings, it really seems that the crisis years for GT kids are around 2nd grade.

    I agree. For us, it began in 2nd, but 3rd grade has been worse. That's one reason that DH and I decided to get DD6 identified in 1st grade. That doesn't mean we still won't have issues.

    Good luck with whatever you decide. Sometimes I wish I could homeschool DD9 because she's so miserable right now. We really need my income, though, so I have to work. You know your DS and what he needs and you will make the right decision.

    Hugs!
    Pink

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    CFK, thanks for your advice. We've had such a hard time with school for DS from the start. He's been to two private schools already, if you count preschool. And the local "prep" school will eventually be a good fit for him, but not quite yet (not a place for kids who don't fit their norm). Unfortunately, there are no GT schools.

    And thanks for the hugs, Pink.

    We started to lose him last year, and don't want the same thing to happen this year. The only thing is that despite his complaints, he does go to school happy, and pretty much comes home happy. Maybe they can do something for him in school and save everything...

    Still no word, though. I know it's hard for them.

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    Originally Posted by questions
    To DH's credit, he has asked if maybe we should move, as DS is missing out on his childhood. And it was DH who suggested homeschooling so that at least DS would be happy. I can't tell you how huge a turnaround this is in DH's thinking...

    That is exactly where DH is at. At the beginning of the year he was totally opposted to homeschooling and had wonderful fantasies of me returning to work full time and brining home a HUGE salary. crazy Now he is even hinting out in public that this is what we *need* to do for DS. And is secretly plotting to go south for a month next winter. He has the ability to work remotely.

    DH just tends to be very conservative about a major move like this and comes around to my way of thinking eventually, but very slowly! He'll be volunteering to be in charge of science in 6 months or so. wink

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    About the neighborhood...

    We have lived in three different homes since starting our family. Not a single one had a neighborhood of kids. The first was a house in a city where we had one neighbor my son's age. The next was on a suburban street where the houses were spread out and we had one family with kids the same age about the equivalent of six blocks away. Our current home is in a more rural area. We have more llamas and alpacas than children around here, and our other neighbors are a gay couple, an older woman, and a childless couple.

    My kids and I are used to driving or having friends drive to see us. I don't really know anyone who lives in the sort of place I grew up in, with families so plentiful that there were always pick up games of kickball or capture the flag. Do kids still do impromptu playing this way? I don't know that even in more populated neighborhoods that kids have the same freedom that we did. My sisters and I used to ride our bikes 2 miles to the downtown area to go to the library or shop. I must have been six when I started riding or walking to the little candy shop that we used to frequent. I cannot imagine allowing my kids to do the same today; it's a different world.

    I'd love to hear more about where everyone lives. Does anyone have children who have friends just next door or down the street?

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    Same here Lorel. Your childhood sounds like mine. It's good to know it's not just me that's wondering if somethings amiss because the girls aren't just running around the neighborhood playing all the time.
    I think I have to line up my memories of childhood with what the reality is now, in today's environment.

    Incog

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    We do have kids around, though parents are MUCH more protective than they were in my day. We used to run up and down the street through backyards to one another's houses. Nowadays, all the backyards are fenced.

    To that end, we talked to the neighbors behind us and took down the fence between our backyards. Now kids run back and forth between the houses on their street and ours. As there are few kids on our street, that suits us quite nicely!

    So I guess I'd say that you might have to do something to encourage it, but it does happen even today!

    Finally, a funny...

    I thought this was code for something, Lorel:

    Originally Posted by Lorel
    We have more llamas and alpacas than children around here,


    Then I figured out that, no, you really meant there are more llamas and alpacas than children in your area! I had to LOL!


    Kriston
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    Baaaa!

    (Or do llamas make a sound other than that?)

    laugh


    Kriston
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    Our neighborhood is VERY old fashioned. It is lined with sidewalks and there are lots of kids around. We have a park 2 blocks from us and kids are everywhere. I have 2 little girls within 6 months for my DD3 within a block. There are kids my son's age within 2-3 blocks, but unfortunately he hasn't really clicked with any of the very close kids. Some parents in this area are very relaxed about letting the kids run around on their own. I'm not there yet.

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    I like the running through backyards. No cars to hurt them, no easy way for strangers to see them, moms keeping an eye on them...

    It's all good!


    Kriston
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    Questions, I think it takes time to get used to the idea of hs. There are lots of questions smile one needs to face and decide.

    Our state doesn't allow p/t hs, but there are few private schools which allow it. I think we are 95% set on hs next year. DS5 knows about it and is thrilled. We are still looking for the p/t option. We found one school, which we really like, but it's too far away and the logistics may be way too complicated.

    delbows, that's awful. I cannot believe the other people attitude, especially the teacher's!

    Ania, see you in Europe. We too are heading there in the middle of May smile I even have similar concerns about English like you used to have.

    It looks like there could be quite a few new hs come next school year.


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    So, I picked up an angry child today from school. Apparently, he is now getting the challenge work twice a week, instead of once, but it's during his former free time. Apparently, 5/20 kids do the extra work, but DS objects to it big time. He said he wouldn't mind during work time, but NOT DURING PLAYTIME! The other kids get to play checkers and clue and whatever while he and the others work on challenge math and writing assignments. So, they gave me what I asked for, but not in a way that will work. He still has to sit there through stuff he knows and gets to miss fun time as a bonus. I tried to tell him he still has 3 days to play, but if he doesn't finish his work, he has to continue it the next day, and he's not fast.


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    Ugh. Yeah, that's not a solution. Punish him for being ahead? Yeah, great thinking.

    You know, when I read stuff like this and delbows's DS's experience with the group project, I get bummed out all over again about how little has changed in GT ed.

    Sorry. I don't mean to be negative. It just gets to me!

    I'm sorry, questions. So what's your next step?


    Kriston
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    I am sorry, questions. I hate it when teachers make learning a punishment!!

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    I have to go out of town tomorrow to a beautiful resort for a conference. I am so sorely tempted to take him with me - even though he'll have to be in childcare for the entire day and even though he has already missed the maximum number of days... So tempted...

    #10357 03/04/08 02:15 PM
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    And my babysitter just saw a mangy fox in our garage...

    Usually, it's just deer and geese.

    #10358 03/04/08 02:16 PM
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    I've been trying to talk Questions in to moving in down the street from me. There's a lovely house available...

    Playdates galore! smile


    Kriston
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    I'm sorry Questions! frown Are they really trying to help your son with what you requested or are they trying to stick it to you a little bit by "giving you what you wanted"? Or is that just me being cynical??

    At any rate, I'm very sorry that he is having to lose his play time. I know one reason I hated my GT pull out in school was because it was during times when other kids were doing fun things and it was NO fun in and of itself.

    Loved your quote Dottie "And they claim to worry about his "emotional" development and being a child,". Seems to be a bit contradictory doesn't it?

    What happens if he does go with you??? Does something bad happen if you miss too many days? (I guess I should know these things but I don't)

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    That is total crap, questions. The challenge work should take the place of the work he has mastered, not in addition to.
    Don't automatically assume they are just being jerks, they may honestly just not get it.
    Don't take this sitting down.
    Ask for a meeting with the teacher, and explain the situation.
    I gave DD's teacher her WIAT achivement test results with GE. I had previously asked her, what is DD supposed to learn to get to the next grade and does she already know it?
    I honestly don't think they had thought about it like that. And I would go so far as to tell them it isn't fair to make a child keep doing work THEY HAVE ALREADY MASTERED. My goodness. They give all the kids "tests" at the end of the year to see if they know the material. Ask for your son to be tested out of the material now. I really think they think that they get the whole GT thing, but they don't understand a GT kid that is 2 years or more ahead, it just doesn't seem to compute.
    Right now, DD8 has extra work in lieu of what she has already mastered and if she had to deal with your son's situation, it wouldn't be pretty.
    I don't think there is any quicker way to extinguish a child's love of learning than the scenario you just menioned. Get in there, girl and talk to teacher, principal, district person, whatever you have to do.

    Good luck,

    Incog

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    Amen and Hallelujah, 'Neato! You speak truth, loud and clear!


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    Incog,

    I asked for that exactly that. I think in my email I said something like is there a test he can take so that he can place out of the regular math and access his CTY during the day? I also said he needed a challenge and what do you suggest. I thought I'd get at least an email, if not a meeting. (And of course, it doesn't help that none of the other kids complain about the extra stuff - they like it and are proud of it.) They're right, he doesn't need the pressure, but he does need the challenge. He didn't seem to object to the extra writing work, but he did not like the math. (an addition problem like if you ride your bike 15 miles in a week, how many miles do you ride in a year?)

    If the school doesn't have a GT program in second grade, it's hard to imagine the teachers are going to know what to do and if they'll even be willing to vary standard procedures. Time to write some more emails. Helicoptering, here I come...

    Kriston, I'll take a look at that house, but you have to do something about the weather.


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    I loved hearing all the stories about neighborhoods. I think in general, there are far fewer of the old fashioned neighborhoods, and that parents keep their kids closer to home. It is cool to know that some of our kids can actually walk to a friend's house.

    Kriston, I wasn't kidding about the llamas and alpacas! We also have tons of wildlife, similar to CFK's area. Earlier this week, a flock of 25 turkeys strolled through our front yard. We have foxes, coyotes, deer, fishers, all sorts of turtles, woodchucks... and a bear was sighted on the woodland path behind our house just before we moved in. Apparently, it scared the daylights out of a nun out for a walk to the rest home! A few years ago there was a moose involved in a car accident on our street too. Unfortunately, all this wilderness comes with a price- we have terrible problems with deer ticks. I'd like to get chickens to free range and eat them up, or maybe guinea fowl, as they are even better tick eating machines.

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    I think it is awful to give a gifted student work to do during play time. What kind of message does that send? Shut up and act normal, or I'll give you more work?

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    Truth be told... Public school education for my kids has been good for the most part. It has allowed me to be very active with their schools, classes, and other volunteer projects. My kids have enjoyed playing with other kiddos. Not every year was valuable. There was a troubled year with awful teacher. I volunteered to teach science to the class for a year and taught art to the class for a year. We've brought in guest speakers, German lessons (1 yr), Spanish Lessons (3 yrs), and coordinated lots of field trips. Our Charter middle school is terrific--very enriched curriculum, though the oldest didn't get the math acceleration he needed, so we did EPGY at home. Elementary & Middle were small, contained--there were so many was I could participate and make it better.

    High School, however, is hands-off. I keep thinking it'd be so much better to homeschool oldest DS; first off--he doesn't want it. I happened to find my high school year book(from about 25 yrs ago) yesterday and paged through it. I remember those days so well. The teachers' names, friends, everything. While, there were plenty of things I didn't like at that time, it was still such a wealth of learning experiences. I wouldn't want DS not to have those kind of memories--just working alone, at home, with a computer. DS loves being on the golf team, robotics competitions, French class, etc.

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    One other note about working in groups. This seems to be more and more emphasized in schools, with the idea that it simulates workforce dynamics. True, when I was working, I had to work on teams, mentor new people, coordinate efforts, etc. I had the tendency of doing a lot of the work myself, because it was easier than having to re-do what others worked on later, and more reliable. But, I learned that teams, onced trained, could be efficient, and were a part of life. When I was pregnant (several times), I appreciated teams, because I needed them to cover for me when I was on leave. I was determined to prepare my co-workers to make it seamless.

    My kids have had to be on teams with kids they don't like, kids that don't work, and then also with kids they both liked and who worked. I've had to talk to teachers when there were problems with others not doing their parts, and convince my guys that sometimes they had to do more than their share to get the job done. They don't seem to work on teams so much in high school, but I don't think it was bad to have had to do it earlier.

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    questions,

    Don't back down so easily. Could be that's what they are counting on. If I e-mailed the principal, principal would never respond. If I questioned this, I would get a good natured smile and diatribe on spam filters and a pat on the head. "Now go out and play".
    Call and leave a message with the school secretary. Make it clear that you want a meeting. Get your tester involved if that would help. If your request is ignored go to the district. You might be surprised at how receptive the superintendant can be. Or not, but you'll never know unless you pursue it.
    Keep smiling, keep calm, keep professional and friendly. But don't just stop asking for accomodations.
    I'm in a similar boat with DS5 in K. I was supposed to hear from the social worker 3 weeks ago! I've left 2 messages from principal so far. I am busy hatching my next devious plan. I'm not sure what it will be, but it won't entail leaving it alone.

    Incog

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    Originally Posted by cym
    I wouldn't want DS not to have those kind of memories--just working alone, at home, with a computer. DS loves being on the golf team, robotics competitions, French class, etc.


    If you find a good HSing group, all that stuff is still available. For example, we've got jr. high and high school kids working on the Olympics--our HS group is trying out every sport in the 2008 summer Olympics--and those who don't feel like doing the sports stuff can work as helpers. The cameraderie is great. We had roughly 120 kids at a gymnastics event on Sunday! It was a sight to see! And it cost $7 a head for 4+ hours of gymnastics instruction on every kind of equipment available.

    There are also science fairs, sports teams, foreign language classes, etc. available. Different areas are different, and our area has a particularly active HSing population. But I'd bet that if you look around, you could find something comparable in your area.

    I'm not trying to persuade you to HS, cym. And if your DS isn't interested, then that's really the end of the discussion as far as I'm concerned. But I always hate to hear someone dismissing HSing as an option because of an inaccurate perception of HSing as "a kid and a computer, alone."

    And just to punctuate the point, remember that my biggest problem with HSing is that we're spending so doggone much time with other people! We're TOO social, not alone enough! wink


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    Oh, and INTJs tend to dislike working in teams. We'd rather just do it ourselves to be sure it's done right.

    Since there are so many of us here, I suspect the forum bias will be decidedly against teams.


    Kriston
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    Originally Posted by incogneato
    questions,

    Don't back down so easily. Could be that's what they are counting on. If I e-mailed the principal, principal would never respond. If I questioned this, I would get a good natured smile and diatribe on spam filters and a pat on the head. "Now go out and play".
    Call and leave a message with the school secretary. Make it clear that you want a meeting. Get your tester involved if that would help. If your request is ignored go to the district. You might be surprised at how receptive the superintendant can be. Or not, but you'll never know unless you pursue it.
    Keep smiling, keep calm, keep professional and friendly. But don't just stop asking for accomodations.
    I'm in a similar boat with DS5 in K. I was supposed to hear from the social worker 3 weeks ago! I've left 2 messages from principal so far. I am busy hatching my next devious plan. I'm not sure what it will be, but it won't entail leaving it alone.

    Incog


    Again, I second 'Neato. This is warpath-worthy stuff, Questions. A friendly, polite warpath. But a warpath nonetheless.

    Don't take no for an answer. Your DS deserves better!


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    Luckily, DS did get off to school today. That's a relief.

    FYI, when I said 5/20 kids are doing the challenge work, that doesn't mean it's a group project. DS would love a group project. It just means that there are four other children in his class getting math sheets during playtime and NOT COMPLAINING. That's the kicker.

    I emailed last night saying that when I asked that he get more challenging work, I meant during work time. Extra work on top of regular work feels like punishment to him. I'd rather he play during play time.

    I haven't gone to the principal yet, as I have access to the learning consultant through the IEP. She said she'd try to get him the computer time.

    HSing is a tough decision. He does not like being an only child and wants more friends to play with. He gave a girl in his class a big hello this am, and he's a kid who asked that we go the orphanage and get him a sibling for Christmas; now he's asking that we become foster parents. (Kriston, you're clearly right about outsiders' perception of HSing.)

    Still, there's no doubt that he wants to be homeschooled - at least he thinks he does. I think I might go to a few of the HS group activities while he's in school and take a look and make some more contacts.

    And before we do anything, we will speak to the principal.

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    We had to homeschool and there are days when I still feel really sad that my son doesn't have a childhood like I remember with lots of kids to play with at recess and also kids in the neighborhood to play with in the evening.

    At home my son doesn't have to deal with bullies and he can learn the way he learns best, but I still feel like something is missing. He has once a week musical theater classes with other kids and he does cub scouts once a week, but that is all. So a few hours a week, he is with other kids. He says he is happy and he never wants to go back to school but he says he wouldn't mind going to just band or a one hour a week gifted class or just hang out on a playground with other kids at school, just so he could get to know some of them. He doesn't fit in with any of the kids in our homeschool group.

    Yesterday, I finally sent letters to my state legislators asking them to consider requiring our public schools to provide a part time school option for children with special educational needs. Last year I sent emails to the state superintendent of public schools, several people with the education department and even the governor with no response other than some brief reply saying they were forwarding my message to the superintendent of public schools. I wasted all that time sending emails and the only person who bothered to call me and really talk to me was a woman with the gifted coordinator's office who told me that it wasn't fair that my son couldn't get an appropriate education in our public schools or play with other kids on the playground during school hours, but there was no law in Oklahoma requiring them to provide an appropriate education for twice exceptional children and that I should write letters to my legislators about it instead of sending emails. She wished me luck, but said there wasn't really anything else she could do. She said she thought I was doing the right thing by homeschooling my twice exceptional son and to remember that "he is worth it."

    My husband and I struggle financially to provide the things our son needs. I see that my son's friends in public school get to take band and a one hour a week gifted class that I think my son should be able to take but can't because he is homeschooled and it just isn't fair, especially considering that even the superintendent or our school told me I needed to homeschool when I talked to him about my son's testing results. His comment to me at that time was "This is a good problem to have."

    Even some of the homeschoolers are against part time school because they say the government will try to get involved in their lives if homeschoolers start attending the "government school" part time. Some of them see me as a trouble maker because I am trying to get help in educating my son, so I don't do much with our local homeschool group.

    In our small town the school seems to be the center of the community and they all seem to value sports more than education. Our town has a nice football field and they recently added a skate park, but no library, because a lot of people here are not interested in reading. I feel like we are cut off from what is happening in the community and we don't fit in. My uncle is the town mayor and even he is more interested in sports than reading. He doesn't see any need for a library.

    I would move if I could, but I can't.








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    My son is the only child at home and he keeps asking us to become foster parents so he can be around kids. This just breaks my heart. I didn't know I would have to homeschool. I want him to have lots of friends.

    I have had homeschool moms in our group ask me why I have only one and then they tell me they had lots of kids so their kids would have someone to play with.


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    Lori, you're so right. And I think a big part of the disconnect is the 2E issue, which they deal with by only addressing one of the E's. I learned that they are required to address both, but they don't know how to address the second while taking into account the first. His tutor works at a school for verbal/reading/writing LD kids and she told me that they are not teaching to his style of learning, and he will fly with HS. And she agrees that the best school in the area for him is what I think people on this board refer to as a "prep" school. Still, their teacher recommendation form asks if the child has an IEP, sensory issues, fine motor issues, attentional issues, etc., etc., etc. And his OT thinks he needs a couple more years before he is ready for their expectations. Not that there's any room anyway, but I did contact them last week.

    Finally, your post makes me think we should just show up at the playground at recess. Not at his current school, but at another public elementary school closer to where we live. (We live across the street from another school district, where each grade only has about 50 kids as opposed to 400, and which does address GT in the early years. We actually petitioned the Board to see if we could pay for him to attend that school, but the answer was no.) Just showing up at the playground may be okay with them, however. Something else to look into. Thank you for mentioning it.

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    In 2-3 hours of official school time, you can cover MUCH more material with your HG+ child than he'd ever get in school, even if you're not pushing at all. It's only natural for these kids.

    So what do you suppose you do with the rest of your day?

    You play! You go to HSing events and hang out with other people. You take foreign language or gym classes. You go to the park, to the store, to the gym. You LIVE!

    In the 5 months we've been HSing, DS has learned to ski quite well, has played football on a local team (with pads and everything--they even played an exhibition game at halftime of the local pro team's game!), has taken a museum class on caves, and has taken art and foreign language classes that were far more interesting and advanced than he'd have gotten in his elementary school...among other things. That's a lot of ground to cover!

    Every one of those opportunities was far more interactive and people-oriented than regular school is. LOTS of social time! Oh, so much!!!

    I think going to the HS group activities is a swell idea, Questions. You need to know what you're getting into before you get into it. If you can find a mentor to help you with any questions (grin) or problems you have, so much the better. I had two mentors actually, and I'm not sure I'd have been brave enough to take the plunge without them.

    Talk to the/an organizer of the HS group. They may even have a mentor program for newbies. It will give you peace-of-mind to talk about your concerns with someone local. And HSers typically are quite happy to talk about HSing. We've all been where you are! smile


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    Originally Posted by Lori H.
    My son is the only child at home and he keeps asking us to become foster parents so he can be around kids. This just breaks my heart. I didn't know I would have to homeschool. I want him to have lots of friends.

    I have had homeschool moms in our group ask me why I have only one and then they tell me they had lots of kids so their kids would have someone to play with.

    How unthinking of those parents. I am sorry for what they say and what you feel, and believe me, I understand!

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    Quite frankly, Kriston, I'm ready to start tomorrow. I've been frustrated that school gets in the way of his learning. And that it distresses him so much. Maybe he won't go back after vacation. But we're first making sure we have no better option and that the school can't help us.


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    We cross-posted, Lori.

    I'm sorry about your experiences with your local HS group. That's a real shame. I hope your efforts to get part-time access to the school works. I think that's a great solution, and it's one I wish we had access to as well.

    I never understand people who want to limit the choices of others. It's not like the other HSers would be required to send their kids to "government school." Ugh. I really dislike that mentality.


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    Originally Posted by questions
    Quite frankly, Kriston, I'm ready to start tomorrow. I've been frustrated that school gets in the way of his learning. And that it distresses him so much. Maybe he won't go back after vacation. But we're first making sure we have no better option and that the school can't help us.


    Yes, I completely support you in that. There's a lot to consider, and if you don't have to act immediately, then there's no need to act rashly.

    You're covering your bases. You're doing the right things.

    Hang in there! If you need any help, just say the word!


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    Your post sounds very sad Lori. Do you feel down today?

    I can't imagine a town without a library!
    I have always been a big ( and I mean big like London or Toronto)city girl, so when we first moved here, it was a little strange. The first couple of months I felt like I was on vacation, but then the novelty wore off and the reality of "too small" settled in. And the town that I am in has a good 100,000! But I quess your previous experience really plays hard on your perceptions.
    Well, a city of close to one million is about 45 min. drive away - I used to visit all the time! I would pack the car, kids in the back, bikes attached, and I would be off for a day. It has helped tremendously. Now I don't need those "visits" to keep my sanity, but we go at least once a week (Ghost takes a class at the state flagship there).
    I can only smile though, when my kids make comments indicating that they consider SLC a huge one - babies, they don't know the world yet.
    So , I guess my question to Lori would be this - is there any way you can visit somewhere that feels more like you on a regular basis?

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    Wow, posts are flying here today.

    To Questions:
    It is written somewehere here, on the pages of my old posts, but I will repeat. My son was miserable most mornings and most nights when he was in 1st. and 2nd. grade. No problems in pre school and K, but those were only half day and it has probably made a huge difference.
    He did not want to go to school, sometimes he would be vocal about it, sometimes just anxious.He wanted me to teach him at home and was finding a lot of arguments for it - the most frequent one was that he can learn all that staff in one hour and than we could do some fun things together.
    Today, a good 5-6 years later, he loves being at his school.
    A lot of work in between, a lot of changes. Take it one year at a time.

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    Originally Posted by Kriston
    Oh, and INTJs tend to dislike working in teams. We'd rather just do it ourselves to be sure it's done right.

    Since there are so many of us here, I suspect the forum bias will be decidedly against teams.

    Oh yes. Give me the work and leave me alone and I will do a great job. I hated work situation when the job wasn't clearly divided among people or I had to work too closely with somebody else. I always ended up doing much more work and at least half of the other people were getting on my nervous for not doing their thing fast or well enough. I am so over team work.

    Quote
    In 2-3 hours of official school time, you can cover MUCH more material with your HG+ child than he'd ever get in school, even if you're not pushing at all. It's only natural for these kids.

    That's one of our main reasons. DS5 doesn't want to be in school full day and I don't see why he should. He will be more happy if he has enough time to pursue his own interests.


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    Oh, questions, I'm so sorry you're having a tough time of it. If homeschooling seems to be the best option and you can do it, that's what I'd do.

    No advice for you, but know that I'm right there with you, and many happy thoughts going out.

    Catching up on all these posts ... man, this thread moved fast!

    Mia


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    Ania,
    I agree, things have changed drastically for DD8 from 1st to 2nd. That's the main reason I haven't yanked C-dog yet, I'm holding onto hope and hoping that's not pathetic!

    Questions, you sure do have much food for thought around here! Ultimately, you do what's right for your family. Whether that's HS, advocating, or just trying to wait it out. Go with your gut and don't second guess yourself. You can always change the plan later, that's the beauty of it!!

    Okay, I usually don't do this, but.......((hugs))

    I

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    Just for the record, Cym, I agree wholeheartedly with Kriston's comments on homeschooling and social opportunities. When my social guy was in private Montessori, he used to get in trouble for talking too much. Learning at home, he has ample time for informal hanging out as well as structured activities. His social needs are well met, and believe me, he makes sure of it!

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    I'm sorry guys--I didn't mean to poo poo homeschooling in any way. I think it's well documented in literature that the best fit for PG kids is homeschool or hybrid ed environment (hybrid meaning maybe some college course, some home, maybe a mentor, etc.). I was trying to be conciliatory (is that the right word?) if questions wasn't able to do it (for financial or other reasons) saying public schooling hasn't been all bad--that while some time has been wasted, some situations less than optimal, it's worked out ok for me/my kiddos. And I guess I have been naiive about what it would entail (thinking it'd be solitary). Clearly the homeschoolers on this board are motivated and effective in finding the right resources, support groups, and taking advantage of the free time. I know some of the homeschoolers in town and there are at least 2 PG kids in that group (the kids used to be in the PEGS class). I read of another homeschool family here whose son scored perfect on ACT/SAT; his sisters would participate in tons of music & dance competititions all over the SW and win--they're amazing young ladies. I admire those parents who take homeschooling on and do it well.

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    OK, now I am seriously nervous. Meeting next week with teachers, child study team head, and principal. All of a sudden I'm doubting myself completely. I've emailed our team to get a list of what DS needs/should have, and will research on my own. They are truly nice people and do care about DS. Maybe I should bring the psychologist to the meeting. After all, how will we know what to agree to without checking back.

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    Originally Posted by cym
    I'm sorry guys--I didn't mean to poo poo homeschooling in any way. I think it's well documented in literature that the best fit for PG kids is homeschool or hybrid ed environment (hybrid meaning maybe some college course, some home, maybe a mentor, etc.). I was trying to be conciliatory (is that the right word?) if questions wasn't able to do it (for financial or other reasons) saying public schooling hasn't been all bad--that while some time has been wasted, some situations less than optimal, it's worked out ok for me/my kiddos. And I guess I have been naiive about what it would entail (thinking it'd be solitary).


    Nah, Cym. You're fine! You just made the same assumption that pretty much everyone makes about HSing...until they start HSing! I know I assumed we'd be all alone before we dove in. (Ah, if only that were more true than it is!!!)

    No offense taken. smile I know you were looking out for Questions, and anyone who does that is okay in my book. laugh


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    Originally Posted by questions
    OK, now I am seriously nervous. Meeting next week with teachers, child study team head, and principal. All of a sudden I'm doubting myself completely. I've emailed our team to get a list of what DS needs/should have, and will research on my own. They are truly nice people and do care about DS. Maybe I should bring the psychologist to the meeting. After all, how will we know what to agree to without checking back.


    What are you doubting? You know your DS's needs aren't being met. Is this just stage fright?

    Having the psych there isn't a bad idea, if you think s/he would back your play. It might even let you play good cop to the psych's bad cop: ala "This kid needs much more than what you're suggesting!"

    That's not a bad way to go!

    Is it possible for your DH to be there for the meeting? They tend to listen better to men, though I think that's just painfully sexist!

    But if you need to go it alone, you can do it. You know what's right for your DS, and you can stand up for him to get it.


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    Thanks. DH will come to the meeting. This group does take me seriously, but I have to say that the principal at the old school was so sexist it was infuriating. And he had no clue and would be appalled to learn that the mothers thought he was sexist. All my complaints and suggestions fell on deaf ears and I was labeled a problem parent.

    Have to hand it to them, the public school takes parental complaints seriously - maybe b/c he has an IEP and it' s required by law. And the teachers are lovely, the principal and child study team as nice as can be. And I'm still second-guessing myself, thinking
    I'm pushing DS and he's not ready for it. But then again, he's the one who is insulted by the work they're doing in school.
    I'd like to have the psych who did the testing there. I feel that would be helpful, and I will ask her. But she's been ill and probably can't make it.

    And cym, I appreciate the sensitivity and spirit of your comments. You'd think DS would end up okay, but last year ended in crisis with a change of personality, which thankfully has been reversed. So, we want to continue to be very careful to support him.

    Ideally, we'd like him to stay in school, love it, and learn. If we're honest with ourselves, that may not be possible.

    As for my nervousness, I keep thinking maybe DS is not that top of the heap. I know that's ridiculous, but I can see what the teachers do (or don't, as the case may be) see. He's slow completing his work (but incredibly quick at understanding things), and not particularly motivated to do school work. When I looked at the Ruf levels, there really were areas that I saw as Level 5, but others that were much more ordinary. Our goal for this year was to bring up the lagging areas so that he can do what he wants with his more highly advanced skills without frustration. Problem is we can't seem to get the right mix of remedial help and appropriate level and rate of learning.

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    Originally Posted by questions
    As for my nervousness, I keep thinking maybe DS is not that top of the heap.


    You know I love you, so I feel that I can say this to you:

    You're nuts!

    laugh

    Your DS is incredibly bright. Don't ever second-guess that. Other issues may disguise it (boredom, 2E, etc.), but that doesn't mean he's not smarter than any other kid they've ever seen at that school (probably, at least).

    My DS is slow as molasses in a January blizzard. It has nothing to do with how smart he is. In fact, the easier the work, the slower he gets. That's meaningless.

    Don't worry yourself over nothing. You're doing the right thing.


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    Ditto what Kriston & Dottie said--we all have moments where we second guess ourselves. Do we absolutely know what is the right fit for our kids before we've tried it? Not necessarily, but I think it's giving things a shot when status quo isn't working. Be willing to take risks and then, if it doesn't work, change again.

    I know one woman who skipped her daughter from 4th to 6th grade. The girl was very bright, always in the top handful of kids in the 6th grade class, but at winter break, the mom un-skipped her back to 5th grade. We were all surprised because it would be a semester of review and then another semester of review the following year...but the mom believed her daughter was having emotional trouble with middle school kids (no touching allowed, and the girl liked to hug and hold hands with friends...very innocently).

    I don't know if that story is relevant, but I'm just trying to say, you know your kid best--that's the only thing you need to remember.

    I've found the most effective meetings with school officials are if you plan a few of the answers/solutions. This may be hard 'cause you want the professionals to tell you what to do, but have something specific in mind, if possible. Dottie wanted advanced math. I asked for ALEKS in the classroom (they agreed); later I asked for Algebra (they declined).

    Some things to consider: Use class time to do advanced work, without sacrificing play time (perceived as a penalty). Allow him to pretest out of units with 85% mastery (we've been able to do this for math & spelling). Condense/compact curriculum (every other problem or sentences for half the words). Evaluate skip at each semester.

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    There are two parts of this thread I wanted to comment:

    Skipping and the lost age of innocence: I went to a talk last week by a noted psychologist, How to be a Go To Parent. And she talked about how common oral sex is in middle school, and drugs and alcohol. Although we want the educational skip, the social issues of skipping our kids is very scary. They are so young after acceleration in middle school and dealing with very grown up issues. This is complex.

    Second, I grew up in the neighborhood described a few pages back. No fences, a kazillion kids to play with as soon as you stepped out the door.

    Last summer at the beach, my 2 year old said she heard her friends (windows were open) and ran outside to play with them. And when we lived in the "Beach" in Toronto for a year when she was born, it was within the city, but the beach is like a village and she could play with the neighbor kids (though she was too young to do it on her own) we would take a walk after dinner and it would often end up as an impromptu play date. But I would see older kids doing it on their own. I don't think you can be as laissez faire as our parents on where your kids are, but there are places to live where kids can still ride their bikes to the park or the "candy" store.

    Ren

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    Thanks for all the discussion. Apparently, the teachers spoke to DS about what he didn't like about school yesterday. They're clearly concerned and preparing for our meeting next week. DS did not mention the work, but he talked about his problems with distractions and his intense dislike of their disciplinary system. (It's rarely applied to him, but he lives in fear of it.). He said he felt like he was being interrogated by the police, even though they were very nice about it. He was afraid to tell them that he hated school. Today, however, he seemed at peace with the challenge work.
    I need to come up with concrete suggestions for Wednesday. I think I'll do what so many of you have done about educating the teachers and principal about PG kids, and their unique issues. The nice thing is that they really do care and are trying to help. The big issue is whether they are willing to do something out of the ordinary for him. I'm no longer nervous about Wednesday. Unlike his last school, I don't feel they'll be adversarial.

    Last edited by questions; 03/08/08 09:27 AM. Reason: fix typos, now that I'm back on the computer
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    I'm glad, Questions. So what concrete things are you planning to say on Wed.? Want any help laying out your "speech"?


    Kriston
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    Absolutely. Thank you. U'm still waiting to hear from his tutor and OT re: what they think we should ask for the make school better for him. Not sure what the answer is.
    Ideas:

    Access to distance learning courses during the day

    More projects so that he can go into things in more detail. For the first time, they have him a list of follow-up questions for him to research at home based on a presentation he made to the class.

    Other research projects so he can get the information he craves.

    Access to quiet time - maybe he can do some work in the school library during the day.
    Just for starters...

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    Sounds good. When will you hear from your stable of pros?

    (Did you realize you have a stable? wink )


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    We're back from the meeting.

    The teachers and staff are incredibly nice and caring and they truly want DS to be happy. We met for two hours, and decided on the following two things, with a follow up meeting scheduled for the week after vacation to see how things are working.

    For math, he will be preassessed before every chapter and if he's mastered the material, he will do challenge problems rather than the regular work during regular work time. FYI, they gave him the year end test and there were a few things he didn't know yet. They don't do the 85% thing, they don't even score it. They just expect him to know everything in the curriculum. I know it's wrong, but we'll try it. Fact is they showed us some problems DS had trouble conceptualizing, so giving him more complicated problems that require thought is a good thing. If we insisted on it, they would let him access the online courses, but for now we'll try their way and see what happens.

    They also agreed to create an "office" in the classroom he (and the other kids, so there's no stigma) can use to get away from the noise and distractions.

    As for GT, the principal doesn't believe in it for k-2. He did away with it this year with the belief that school should be about inclusion, and that the teachers should gear the instruction to the individual student. Not worth arguing about it - nothing will change.

    So that leaves me thinking, we'll try this approach and hope it works, and continue the distance learning at home, and mix it up with some Singapore math type problems for which he has to use pencil and paper routinely. They suggested he continue what he does at home, even though I said I want him to play when he's home. (Oh, and socially, he's telling everyone how smart he is. That took me by surprise, that's for sure - I'll go back and read that other thread.)

    The good thing is that the teachers are willing to work with us and continue to meet with us, so we don't feel the need just yet to pull him out of school. It's definitely a better situation than last year's and he has made great progress in other areas (reading, writing, raising his hand, etc.) I think what he really has to work on is motivation, and I suppose the ultimate question is whether this regular second grade classroom is destroying his motivation. That's what I focused on - that he now thinks all he has to do is do the work, not necessarily well, and the teachers will be pleased. We asked that they help him hold himself to a higher standard.

    Thank you all for your support and good advice.


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    It sounds like a productive meeting, if not the ideal results. Not at all bad though, and it at least sounds collegial and friendly. That goes a long way, I think, as long as they're not just shining you on...

    How do you feel?


    Kriston
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    Pretty good, actually. There is definitely a dialog, and his teachers, the learning consultant (that's the head of the child study team in our district, not our paid consultant - we sure could use one of those!!) and the principal all care about DS and want him to be happy and successful, and to fit into the group.

    I also feel very focused. I have a better idea of what DS needs and what I have to do. I will work on his motivation and challenge at home. I'm not happy about making him go to school at school and then come home and go to school at home, but we need to assess the social issues for our DS (mostly, whether it's better for him ultimately to learn how to problem solve in an environment that's not ideal, or even not that great, for him) before we begin homeschooling. Today just buys us some time. DS will feel better that something is being done and we'll see what happens.

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    Questions,
    I'm so glad you are getting at least some things to try with the school. I'm going to take your challenge question option into my meeting next month. If they won't allow a distance learning self paced program or a subject skip, maybe they will do that at least.
    We are still working on trying to decide if it is better for DS to learn how to manage in the public school or home school him so he can learn but may miss out on learning how to find his place in a group.

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    Oh, forgot to mention. I tried to put the conversation in the context of GT, as the weaknesses are being addressed well by the IEP but the GT has been ignored. I mentioned the PG characteristics on the Davidson site, such as perfectionism, extreme sensitivity and difficulty with boring, repetitive work. Their immediate response: maybe we misclassified him if all these things are standard with GT kids, and he shouldn't have an IEP. I backpedaled wildly on that one and said 2E, 2E, 2E.

    elh0706 - the other thing I mentioned that may be helpful for you is something I heard from our OT - it takes so much mental energy for him to be focused to do his work that he is rightfully upset when he sees what the work is. I had to work so hard for that?!

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    It sounds like a very good meeting. I am glad that they are willing to work with you. The combination of pretesting and challenging problems sounds great. It's a good thing that there are some things he hasn't mastered yet since he will actually learn something in school smile

    Good luck


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    Well, I'm glad you're feeling good about it. And buying time is a good thing at this point. Any improvement is an improvement! We'll take 'em where we can get 'em, right?! smile

    I'm disappointed about the GT portion of the meeting. It sounds like they--like so many people in the schools--don't have a clue about 2E, really.

    Since the GT portion of your DS's education was one of the big things you wanted to address, how do you feel about that? Did you pretty much get what you wanted and they just don't know it, or is that part still a problem for you?


    Kriston
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    I think we're htting what we want and need without calling it GT. I found out from DS that the principal was in their class this morning. In a school of 1200, they are concerned about DS. That's nice. But the GT won't be addressed per se. I spoke to our testing psychologist and she advised we give it a few weeks and are if DS is happy. Otherwise, she points out that there are about 200 HS families in this area, and check it out beforehand and make sure there are other GT HS 7 years old around.

    I definitely feel better and I think DS feels better that they are trying.

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    Good. That all makes good sense. smile


    Kriston
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