Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy How hard to push for early entry?

I apologise in advance that this is long. My head is spinning madly with all of this and I just can't figure out what to do...

My middle daughter is nearly 5 and currently attending preschool at the school where she will continue into reception (Kindy in the US). Due to the odd rules of our state, and her being born in July, she is due to start reception in July (mid year for us) and then do six terms of reception/kindy.

At the end of last year we felt she was ready for school this year and yr1 next year. We raised the question of readiness with preschool staff but were assured that although yes possibly she was ready technically speaking, she was too young to go up and more to the point:

a) more preschool was always good
b) more reception set children up wonderfully for school.

We allowed ourselves to be convinced, assuming that all parents think their child is wonderfully bright and the teachers knew of what they spoke (Mistake!).

Socially, all of the children she had made friends with at Preschool were moving to reception, and she really wanted to go. We felt sad for her that she would lose her friends, go back with them July-Dec and then be separated again when they went to yr1 and she went on for more reception. We went on Summer break vaguely concerned but assuming the teachers were right and it would be ok.

Then we had her assessed by an OT in January (to rule out sensory issues that her elder sister has, just being extra cautious getting ready for school). The OT agreed with us that she should be in school (we didn't ask, they volunteered the opinion) and recommended an Ed Psych assessment for giftedness. We immediately booked her in with a psychologist and tried again to get her moved to January reception start. Unfortunately at this point it was 3 days before school was due to start for the year and we had only our own opinion and that of an OT... So no dice.

At the end of last term we finally got her in to the psych for testing. VIQ 142, PIQ 136, FSIQ138 on the WIPPSI, maths and reading age about 1yr advanced (ie exactly where she should be if she were in reception at the time). And that was with her refusing to complete some tests. The psychologist also agreed she was ready for school now and should not do six terms of reception... So we had acceptable evidence - but the principle was on long service leave!

The psych report stated two terms of reception would be sufficient and DD could simply start in July as planned, then move to yr1 next year. Which academically is certainly likely to be true. However, we were very concerned about the social impact and felt it was best for DD to be put back with the cohort she would go through the rest of her schooling with ASAP, and for her to do as close to a full year of reception as possible. Term one was awful for her socially and she was hating going to preschool (after loving it for the previous 18 months) so we just wanted her out of there.

We finally got to speak to the principle first week of this term, where we pushed to have her moved effective immediately. He acknowledged that she had indeed been ready for school in Jan, and was now; However, he insisted that as all the existing reception classes were full she would have to stay in preschool until July, as planned, but that there would be room in yr1 next year so she would only do two terms of reception. He assured us that all the reception classes spent lots of time together and she would be well integrated with the cohort she was moving on with at the end of year. We weren't thrilled but figured that that at least getting her needs acknowledged and getting from 6 down to 2 terms of reception was a win.

Fast forward to this week (week three of term), I have just come home from the orientation to reception for parents.

1) DDs reception class will have one more student than the "full" classes she could not possibly be moved to because the other parents would have a hissy fit (it's a private school, we are paying for the small class sizes, parents do fuss, which is why we accepted "classes too full" as an argument).

2) All the parents who are anxious their new reception kids not be overwhelmed by the kids that have already been in reception for 6 months were assured that no, our kids will not spend too much time with the other reception kids - the very same kids that I was assured my DD would be spending "lots" of time with. They are in a different building too, while the other reception kids are all closely grouped physically/spatially.

I am SO cranky.

BUT, my DD is having a much better time at preschool this term socially. I am concerned that she is finally going to settle with these kids and not want to move on from them at the end of the year.

Also, it has also come to our attention that perhaps she has mild selective mutism, which would go a long way to explaining why preschool completely missed her giftedness. I worry school will use this as an argument for "being older and more mature is a good thing".

She's very bright (duh) but she's not yet a glaringly high achiever and so we can't really have any idea of whether she ever will be. We also can't really tell whether she has extreme social anxiety/selective mutism or is already "hiding"... Maybe she needs more time to gain confidence, maybe she needs to get out of there NOW.

Long term I feel she is far more likely to be better off being one of the youngest in her class than one of the eldest and I think the best way to achieve that is by early entry.

I don't know whether to go back to school and insist that if one of the classes is going to have 17 kids then it can be any one of those classes not just the late start one and they must move her NOW. Or whether they are right and all this extra preschool is a wonderful thing.

If you read all that I am grateful, if you have advice I will be more grateful still.

Yes dear, go back in and insist. Get your psychologist to call and advocate for you. Do it today.

The selective mutism is very hard to know about which is better. You will have to be flexible and see how things go. Again, I would call the psychologist and ask for her/his perspective.

It isn't your fault for believing the school folks - it is there job and we are all trained to defer to their authority. It takes being burned a few times before we are willing to give up the default assumption that the school folks know best.

Love and more Love
Grinity

Thanks Grinity. Unfortunately we have come to the conclusion that our psychologist is a bit hopeless. We have DD booked in to be reassessed by a gifted specialist but couldn't get her in until October. And I have found a selective mutism specialist but am still waiting for a call back from them. So I don't really have anyone professional I feel I can call on to advocate for us right now.

Realistically I think that DD did meet the criteria for selective mutism but that she is getting over it / improving. Which on the one hand means that we are probably addressing it the right way, but on the other means she does have a deep seated tendency to social anxiety. Which is difficult for us to understand because we have always thought of her as such a social and sunny little person. We think of her as friendly, loud, confident and boisterous. Preschool do not, they see cautious and lacking confidence but have only thought to tell us this now (she's been there nearly 2 years), previously we have just had "My she's independent and likes to do her own thing".

After her first term in the 3yr old program the teacher asked us if she had any speech problems because they had never really heard her speak to them (though I think she spoke to the children)and so could not give an assessment of her speech along with the rest of her report. We then instigated daily show and tell and that got her talking to the teachers over the course of the second term. Because she does talk to them now, and probably at least to a level that other children do, they think she is "fine" but "normal" as they don't the benefit of hearing her deeper thoughts. The question is, will school be any different in that regard. I don't know that it will but I know that she loves a new environment and will learn new and interesting things from being somewhere new...

I just wish I had booked her in to the OT earlier so that we had some outside perspective sooner.

I don't have advice to offer on the school situation, but wanted to respond as your dd sounds very much like mine. Our dd was extremely talkative at home and thus the center of the household from a very early age, but did not speak at all at preschool for the first year.

She did start to speak some at preschool eventually, but even in 2nd grade we heard concerns from the teacher that she did not socialize much. By then I could discuss it with her and she explained that there were no social problems or anxiety - that she just preferred to spend recess in her "mind world." At that point, I started to defend her in the face of anyone who wanted to "fix" her social skills -- "As an hg+ kid, she doesn't have as much in common with the other kids in her class, and *she* is okay with that, so please don't try to fix her."

She is now 11yo, in 5th grade, still talkative and the center of the household. And although the social scene is still not her main thing, she has become very socially capable. This weekend she will be performing (as a member of the youth choir in our town) in Pirates of Penzance with the local opera -- I am very proud as it shows how far she's come.

I realize each case is different, but in this case, given time (years!) to get comfortable in a school situation, what once seemed like a scary problem has faded away.

Wishing you all the best

Thanks Amylou. It really is hard to know how where the line between "that's just her and she's fine" and "it's a problem" lies.

She started with recognisable words other than Dadda/Mamma at 10 months, phrases at 12 months and was talking my ear of constantly at 18 months. And even without words she was always able to communicate very clearly. However, for months I wondered why she had such beautiful manners with me, but would never thank a waiter, and why people kept asking me if she was talking yet. Eventually I had a bit of a "Duh!" moment and realised that she only talked to her family and very close family friends. I figured that was not unusual for an 18 month old and didn't think much more of it.

You can also tell how important something is to her by how quiet she is, the quieter the voice the more deeply she feels. And even at home she will often not answer us if someone else initiates a conversation rather than the other way around, I guess we haven't focused on this much because she talks so much that it's not that prominent. Which is to say she has always had a tendancy to communicate only on her own terms and does find it hard to talk about things she feels deeply.

She's just a bundle of contradictions really.

It's hard to wait, but you are on the right track, and the professionals are on their way.
I still think it's worth a phone call to the school and to share with them the first psychologist's opinion. Ask for what you think is best. The worst that will happen is that they will say no.

This is an entirely reasonable request, make it firmly and with more conviction than you feel.
Hugs,
Grinity

Hi Mumofthree,

DD was always been super quiet at preschool and socially with adults she doesn't know. I too used to feel frustrated by her lack of manners with others when she has such beautiful manners at home - when in reality I think dd just gets a bit overwhelmed (sorry - I don't mean to dismiss your concerns about selective mutism, certainly follow that up - I just mean that I understand that frustration).

I would encourage starting school if you think she's ready. We've had some issues this year with starting school that we're still in the process of addressing but there are a couple of thoughts that have kept coming back to me - 1 So glad preschool is over. Dd didn't hate it, but it was never a good fit. She was quiet and independant in a way that she never is at home (though - if I look for a silver lining it was nice to know she could be independant as she's like my shadow at home!) 2 I wish, wish, wish early entry rather than starting in grade one had been available to us. Because of dd's birthday it was just never going to happen but i think it would have made a significant difference to her confidence - and it would have got on top of some of the social issues as she would have been with peers.

It may or may not pan out for you like this, but dd, now 5.3 is much more socially confident than she was even 2 months ago. I'm not sure if it's just a maturity thing or a combination of maturity, school, etc. But she was always such a little square peg at preschool she never got the chance to just be her.

It's great that the principal is saying yes to grade one next year. I am now about to contradict what I just said above - I do wonder if rather than focusing on getting her in to school a few weeks early, if you'd be better off pushing that she go in to one of the existing classes next term (rather than the late starter class) on the basis it will allow for a smoother amd more emotionally stable transition to grade one (and getting in writing - if you haven't already - that she will go in to grade one next year). That would allow for a smooth transition and you could make sure the school was aware you were making a concession and were therefore very flexible and cooperative But if you think she needs to be there now, push for now.

Good luck - and keep in mind there are no perfect answers in the real world for our kids. Because what you're looking at doing is different to the norm it's only natural to question whether you're doing the right thing. You don't have a useful base for comparison. Go with your gut

Thanks GiftOdd, it's always helpful to hear other's experiences. We have always tended to put DDs swings between talking non stop and not talking at all down to being normal for her age, just her, etc. But just recently we have realised that maybe we have actually been under-estimating how much of an issue it really is. We'll see what the psych says...

Grinity, we have already shared the first psych report with the school. Which is why they agreed to yr1 in 2012 after only 2 terms. But I have put a call into the principle this morning and will state our case that if there can be 17 in one class there can be 17 in a different one and that's where we want her. Unfortunately he is in interstate today and there is a pupil free day Monday for whole school training on the new curriculum they are using, so I don't imagine I will hear back as soon as I would like.

DH doesn't want to move her mid term, so we will be asking she move at the beginning of next term, but into an estabilished reception class that will be going to yr1 next year, not the mid year start class.

On a related note. There is another mother at preschool whose daughter is 1 week older than mine and is having many of the same issues we are experiencing. She's a lovely woman with a lovely daughter. I don't know the little girl too well, she's often been inside preschool or off playing when I have chatted to her mum, so I have no idea whether her issues are purely to do with the silly dual start system and loosing her friends or whether there is more going on. But we have commiserated a lot, without my letting on that we have had DD tested and the school will be moving her to yr1 next year. I feel like I am keeping secrets, which is not me at all, and I don't know whether to a) warn her that DD will be moved to a different class (if we win that argument) or b) suggest that she get her own DD off for assessment.

Well Done! You've put in the call and gotten the ball rolling. Excellent.

I wouldn't alert the other Mom.This is one of those times to focus on DD first. Schools get so easily touchy about parents advising other parents. But I agree it is hard being less than 100% forthright. This has been a big issue for me and excellent training in family loyalty for me.

I would just stick to the relationship you have with the mum...a supportive friendship. Eventually you may want to suggest the assesment but I would wait until there have been a few months more and several playdates at eachother s houses.

Thanks Grinity.


Oh yeah. None of this parents talking to each other nonsense please!

Edited to add: The Selective Mutism specialist called me back today, and felt that DD would probably have been diagnosed in the past but now falls more into your garden variety social phobia category that any local clinical psychologist should be able to help with. She was very impressed that DD had made such progress on her own, or that we had helped her enough on her, depending on how you look at it.

Then I talked to DD, working as hard as I could not to ask leading questions and DD provided some amazing self insight. One of the most important points being that she believes school will be easier than preschool because there will be only one teacher and a small class. Preschool there are two teachers and about 4 aides with maybe 30-35 kids, at school she will have just one teacher and 17 in the class. She also thought that yes she might like to talk to someone who could help her learn to talk to adults she found it hard to talk to.