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    Val #101832 05/10/11 10:00 AM
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    Originally Posted by Val
    Originally Posted by Wren
    I think the point, thank you Mark, is not the list of schools but percentages. If one kid in 1000 goes to U of Mississippi but 200 go to MIT, that is very different, even though they are both represented.

    And, my question was, how they did. Did they enter college early, how early, what was their path after? Maybe you don't have longitudinal data yet. But those questions are interesting and would be helpful as we try and earn support for our children following.

    Ren

    I've re-read your posts, and I'm not sure what you're looking for. You talked about "when are where," in reference to college and grad school, and I've seen a lot of references to the Ivy League.

    Are you primarily interested in moving to a place with schools whose graduates go to the Ivies in high numbers? If this is the case, pick any of the older prep schools back East. Emma Willard (girls; 9-12). Choate (co-ed; 9-12). Exeter NH. Andover MA. New Jersey is full of exclusive private K-12 schools. Etc. Just do a google search. If you want to go out west, try Harker. I expect that kids who do well at the DA will have a good shot at admission to their schools of choice.

    A relatively high fraction of students from those schools attend Ivies, but many of their parents want them to attend Ivies, and the schools screen students for high SSAT/ISEE scores to increase their Ivy placement. It is not clear to me that attending a prep school per se instead of a good public high school increases the chance of attending an Ivy.

    Originally Posted by Val
    I completely understand wanting to get out of the New York City public school system and all its insanities. But at the same time, your daughter is only in kindergarten or 1st grade, right? It seems early to be digging this deep into college admissions statistics. What if she wants to go to the Colorado School of Mines to study geology? Or film studies at UCLA? Paths and ambitions can change a lot in 11 or 12 years.

    NYC has gifted programs from 1st grade, and it has selective high schools such as Stuyvesant and Bronx High School of Science. In some respects its system seems more rational and meritocratic to me than that in much of the rest of the country, where one's school depends entirely on one's address.


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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    Val Offline
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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    NYC has gifted programs from 1st grade, and it has selective high schools such as Stuyvesant and Bronx High School of Science. In some respects its system seems more rational and meritocratic to me than that in much of the rest of the country, where one's school depends entirely on one's address.

    That wasn't my point. The NYC public school system is mad. Some students end up spending three hours a day just commuting. Getting into a school you like requires an insanely high amount of activity (parental and student) and there are no guarantees.

    It isn't as meritocratic as you might think, either. If it was, the five-year-old kids with the highest IQs would get into the gifted kindergartens, with slots assigned in reverse order of IQ. But they don't and it doesn't work that way. A story about New York high schools in the New York Times this week indicates that the computer selection system is opaque, and that there are apparent inconsistencies in admissions.

    Originally Posted by NYT article
    Still, he said he was shocked when Radcliffe was shut out while students with below-average grades got into Midwood. �There was nothing I could tell the parents,� Mr. Mareus said. �I was baffled.�

    The comments give a lot of insight into the process, too.

    I would want no part of that mess, and I can understand why others might not either.

    Last edited by Val; 05/10/11 10:42 AM.
    Wren #101839 05/10/11 10:48 AM
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    I do not understand your response to my question Val. I didn't start anything about IVs but joined in. I was interested in rapid acceleration. How kids did after they went to college early. I didn't mean 15 or 16. That isn't rapid acceleration in my mind.

    And why pay 50K per year for high school when Stuyvesant is free and Harvard loves the grads. I think last year they took 26 out of 700 or something.

    I did a post about available classes because we were thinking of moving but it seems very hard to duplicate what DD has here.

    Her Chinese class is 2.5 hours every Sat morning and costs $300 oer semester, with online homework and review. Nobody has mentioned an area that has the weekly science classes like she takes at the American Museum of Natural History. They are amazing classes with great resources, since they use the museum and get to go into all the new exhibits before they open.

    My good friend's daughter decided to spend her last couple of years at a boarding school in CT. The exmissions were not so great, unless you had the scores and the legacy -- much like if DD goes to Stuyvesant. I expect her to have the scores and she has legacy.

    I am not sure she is into mining engineering (I thought of switching in my 2nd year). But if she decides she wants to go there, great. But she doesn't need Andover for that.

    I do not get your point Val.

    Ren

    Wren #101843 05/10/11 11:04 AM
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    Originally Posted by Wren
    Maybe you don't have longitudinal data yet

    I would highly suggest that you apply for DYS because it seems like you're trying to piece this togeather by yourself (along with us). While I personally hope you stay active on this board because we enjoy "puzzling it out" here, I think DYS gives you a personal councelor who has experience, resources, and data. They've already figured some of these questions out with a list of relevant answers, I believe. I think anyone over the age of 5 can apply. I think DYS is international which makes it all more interesting. I know I have to be supportive when my kid is old enough if they chose to go abroad for college (yours will be bilingual, right?) or even skip college and make a military career (there's a lot in my family. It's in their blood. My babies.)
    Also browse the "college confidential" board, if you haven't already. It's a little interactive board that let's you know who's kids are going to which schools, why, and how. But I wasn't trying to be all "whatever" when I said the kids gotta make their own choice after a point and the Mamma should be a reliable resource. It's her job.


    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar
    Wren #101844 05/10/11 11:14 AM
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    Wren,
    Is your child a DYS? I would suggest going to the private forum for answers from parents of older kids.
    What do you consider rapid acceleration? Do you really see a point of having a child go to college younger than 15?

    Wren #101846 05/10/11 11:18 AM
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    Val Offline
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    Originally Posted by Wren
    I do not understand your response to my question Val.
    Ren

    As I mentioned, I was just trying to understand what your question is here. Here's why I thought you were focusing on Ivy admissions:

    Originally Posted by Wren
    And I am not sure about outcomes from state colleges and Harvard or Yale. They wouldn't have the endowments they have if their grads had the same outcomes.

    I am not saying you aren't a doctor if you attend medical school in Iowa, but what is the likelihood of getting the residency you want? I cannot believe how competitive it is to get a good residency these days.

    Or if you want a job in a top law firm or investment bank.

    Investment banks tend to like a few schools and yes, the focus is on the MBA but getting into the MBA is competitive too and more kids from top schools tend to get into Harvard and Wharton MBA programs.

    I think the point, thank you Mark, is not the list of schools but percentages. If one kid in 1000 goes to U of Mississippi but 200 go to MIT, that is very different...

    And why pay 50K per year for high school when Stuyvesant is free and Harvard loves the grads. I think last year they took 26 out of 700 or something.

    I expect her to have the scores and she has legacy.

    These quotes are what make me think you're trying to optimize chances for Ivy admission. You've said you're thinking of leaving NYC, so I was throwing out non-NYC suggestions. I wasn't trying to be rude. I was trying to help. Enough said. If you want me to stop responding, I will. No worries.

    How long would the commute to Stuyvesant be? Quality of life could be an issue if she'll be travelling a long way.

    The Bay area has lots of options like the ones you describe. We have a plethora of language programs, loads of science camps throughout the year and colleges everywhere. High school students can enroll in community college classes free of charge. Plus it's sunny here. What about the Long Island School for the Gifted? I've heard good things about it, and it's close to New York.

    Do you think your daughter will finish high school when she's 14 or 13 or 12? If so, the DA might be a good choice, because there will be other kids her age there.

    My son is 11 and will be in 8th grade next year. He's at a combined middle/high school and the age- and social-outlook-gap is already big WRT the high schoolers (think of an pre-pubescent kid surrounded by 14-18 year olds). I have a friend who graduated when he was 15. He told me that he was too young to socialize and he missed that terribly. Not the first time I've heard that. I'm not saying that social mismatch problems WILL happen, but there's a high probability, and I think it's essential to consider it and create strategies to address it.

    Last edited by Val; 05/10/11 11:21 AM. Reason: Clarity
    Wren #101848 05/10/11 11:30 AM
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    It totally agree about social issues around middle school. I remember still looking very young as my classmates breasts were expanding and some started sexually active.

    First, you mentioned the Bay area programs. But does the museum have a weekly science class that starts as young as at least grade school (AMNH starts at 3 actually and runs through high school) And the PhD program is there so high school students can work with PhD students on projects.

    And are the language programs similar? I don't you can beat $600 per year with online support of homework and lessons. She has 2.5 hours in a class with age mates each week.

    Stuveysant is just downtown. 30 minute subway ride on the westside without delays, door to door.

    There are some here that travel 45 minutes to an hour for elementary grades. I think she can handle 30 minutes in high school.

    Quality of life is the big issue. Because there seem to be so many options.

    But that has nothing to do with rapid acceleration.

    Ren


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    Originally Posted by La Texican
    [ I think DYS gives you a personal councelor who has experience, resources, and data. They've already figured some of these questions out with a list of relevant answers, I believe. I think anyone over the age of 5 can apply. I think DYS is international which makes it all more interesting.
    Yes, DYS does have personal 'Family Consultants' and yes they do try to be helpful, mostly by connecting families who have 'been there and done that' with other families who are trying to decide amoung options. But no, the 'FCs' probably won't share data - although the families on the elist called 'early college' probably will share personal data, if asked nicely.

    One can only apply to DYS if one is:
    Quote
    Q. Who may apply?
    Anyone may apply who:

    �Is between the ages of 5 and 16;
    �Fulfills the Qualification Criteria;
    �Is a U.S. Citizen residing in the United States, or a Permanent Resident of the United States residing in the United States

    see http://www.davidsongifted.org/young...rs___Frequently_Asked_Questions_381.aspx

    for more details.

    Smiles,
    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
    Wren #101855 05/10/11 12:12 PM
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    I'm sort of perplexed since I think that the term "radical" is being used differently given context in this thread.

    My daughter, for example, has been "triple-skipped" and will graduate from high school just before her 15th birthday.

    There is little question that educators consider that "radical acceleration."

    But I am getting the impression that being a 15yo college student is not a circumstance which calls for that particular term. (Which is fine-- I don't really care one way or the other-- it's just perplexing given the duality and seemingly contradictory nature of the way it's being used, that's all.)

    So what constitutes "radical" acceleration, then?

    College at 14?

    At 10?

    I think most colleges view it as anything less than about seventeen.


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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    I'm sort of perplexed since I think that the term "radical" is being used differently given context in this thread.

    My daughter, for example, has been "triple-skipped" and will graduate from high school just before her 15th birthday.

    There is little question that educators consider that "radical acceleration."

    But I am getting the impression that being a 15yo college student is not a circumstance which calls for that particular term. (Which is fine-- I don't really care one way or the other-- it's just perplexing given the duality and seemingly contradictory nature of the way it's being used, that's all.)

    So what constitutes "radical" acceleration, then?

    Following the paper below, I suggest defining "radical acceleration" as being an educational path leading to high school graduation (or college entry) three or more years before the usual age.

    http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10349.aspx
    Radical acceleration and early entry to college: A review of the research.
    Gross, M. & Van Vliet, H.
    Gifted Child Quarterly
    National Association for Gifted Children (NAGC)
    Vol. 49, No. 2
    Spring 2005

    "Few educational interventions have been as comprehensively studied as acceleration and few have acquired as compelling a body of empirical evidence for their success. Acceleration was one of the few educational procedures endorsed by Shore, Cornell, Robinson, and Ward (1991) in their comprehensive analysis of research in gifted education as being strongly validated by research. Yet, many educators are wary of possible ill effects of acceleration, citing fears for both the intellectual and affective well-being of students (Daurio, 1979; Southern, Jones, & Fiscus 1989). Particular concern is expressed when the acceleration under consideration is radical, that is, it employs a range of procedures leading to school graduation 3 or more years earlier than usual."


    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell
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