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    #101750 - 05/09/11 11:03 AM Re: Auditing a class [Re: Bostonian]
    delbows Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/25/06
    Posts: 778
    Loc: Midwest
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Originally Posted By: delbows

    Some schools teach AP courses as first year courses to qualified students while others require their advanced students to take an honors level chem., physics or bio prior to AP chem., physics or bio. Knowing your school’s usual sequence for strong science students would help with your planning.


    I have wondered if highly gifted students need to take middle school science courses (one sequence is physical science in 6th grade, life science in 7th grade, and earth science in 8th) and introductory high school science courses or if they should dive in to A.P. courses.
    The only requirement listed for the EPGY calculus-based physics course http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/physics/P051/ is concurrent study of calculus.

    My vote is that science-talented middle school students take honors intro level pysics, chem and bio, then start high school with APs.

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    #101753 - 05/09/11 11:13 AM Re: Auditing a class [Re: herenow]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Originally Posted By: herenow
    Originally Posted By: CFK
    [quote=Bostonian]

    Another problem is that some highschools might allow a younger student to enroll in a highschool class but not offer highschool credit. But then they will not allow a child to repeat a class previously taken. So if the student takes, for example, Algebra, Algebra II and Geometry prior to highscool enrollment, he or she would still be required to earn 4 math credits for graduation during highschool. If the school only offers up to Calculus, the student will run out of math courses to take to graduate. This can be a problem for children that subject accelerate far in advance of their base grade.

    (not saying not to do it, just to educate yourself about all the possible ramifications)


    I think how the schools handle this topic varies very much by state and district.

    Currently the 6th graders taking Algebra 1 in our district will not get credit for the class, nor a grade. It is viewed as an "experiment" and the administration did not want these children to possibly be penalized if it turned out that they were too immature to handle the classwork.

    Any "high school" (e.g. Algebra, Geometry...) math classes taken in 7th or 8th grade will count on that child's high school transcript.


    I'd be very sure that this wouldn't (later) run afoul of the state's requirements for high school graduation, however--

    in our state, for example, there are speicific course requirements in math, in science, and in social studies which must be present in order to earn a high school diploma in the state. One of them is "geometry." So if a student takes the course as a 6th or 7th grader, without earning high school credit, it's important to find out what that would mean later on in high school in terms of the impact on graduation.

    Physical science and biology are both graduation requirements, too.

    _______________________

    ETA: I finally figured out what I had meant to add before.

    Don't rely on school officials to necessarily KNOW off-hand what the ramifications would be. Check for the information yourself on your state Dept. of Education website and/or with the local high school guidance counselor. But recognize that you are taking a gamble here, because if you do not have your child take the course for credit toward HS graduation, there's no guarantee that the CURRENT standard will be the one that applies to your child once s/he is actually a high school student. I know that often requirements are "phased in" and that students can finish their diplomas on the requirements that existed when they started high school... but the waters become a lot murkier when you're talking about a student who is several years from even entering high school. In other words, you can't necessarily predict what the powers-that-be will say... four years from now.

    Our own state education bureaucracy is kind of notorious for making graduation requirements a moving target. That's why I mention this stuff.


    Edited by HowlerKarma (05/09/11 01:39 PM)
    Edit Reason: Thanks, caffeine.
    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #101834 - 05/10/11 10:09 AM Re: Auditing a class [Re: HowlerKarma]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2634
    Loc: MA
    Given the uncertainty, I would encourage my children to take high school courses for credit when they are ready for them and worry about the graduation requirements later. Maybe

    (1) high school courses taken before high school will be counted as a matter of policy
    (2) a waiver will be granted as an exception to the usual policy
    (3) the child will go to a private high school with its own graduation requirements
    (4) the child will be accepted to college without ever getting a high school diploma
    (5) the family will move to another state
    (6) the child will take further college-level math courses beyond calculus while in high school, and those will be counted toward graduation. If geometry is the stumbling block, have him take a topology class smile.
    _________________________
    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell

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    #101849 - 05/10/11 11:31 AM Re: Auditing a class [Re: Bostonian]
    delbows Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/25/06
    Posts: 778
    Loc: Midwest
    I would not feel obligated to have my child list high school/college courses or grades if taken before 9th grade on college applications. I’d simply advise a statement indicating “various others before high school”. And if the college wants more details, they can ask.

    Having attended a few college presentations so far, I get the impression they only have time and desire to evaluate course placement (an indication of prior education, especially in math) and grades beginning with the summer prior to 9th grade.

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    #101866 - 05/10/11 01:18 PM Re: Auditing a class [Re: Cecilia]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181

    My point here is regarding what opting OUT of credit for a graduation requirement class may mean for obtaining a regular (as opposed to :modified: ) diploma...

    One's state may have plenty to say about what constitutes a high school diploma (so with all due respect, Bostonian, it may not be up to the school to make an exception), and retaking a (then-remedial) course as a moody adolescent isn't a situation I'd wish on anyone. grin


    For example:

    Washington's current graduation CREDIT requirements

    and general graduation requirements.

    Oregon's are even MORE convoluted.

    In California, a number of courses are specifically noted as "required" for a diploma.


    The requirements in some places are inflexible, too, because they aren't "policy," they're actually written into state law. Honestly mathematics is probably the least problematic in this respect. If one gets into the language arts or social science offerings as non-credit propositions too early, that can create some real problems later, as I'm sure is clear from the three state examples cited above.

    I do understand that radically accelerated students may choose NOT to finish high school and recieve a standard diploma. Care may be necessary if it is to be a "choice."


    Seek information. Don't guess if you don't have to. That's all I'm advocating. (We're in the thick of this, which is how I am painfully aware of the compromises that must sometimes be made in order to satisfy a state bureaucratic machine that doesn't have a "slot" for PG kids-- I would MUCH rather that my then-nine-year-old hadn't been made to take a course that college admissions offices will eventually see... but that WAS the least-worst option.)
    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #101964 - 05/11/11 10:37 AM Re: Auditing a class [Re: Cecilia]
    Cecilia Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/07/09
    Posts: 159
    Thank you very much to all who responded! I knew I could count on you! smile So many great points...Oh why, oh why does this all have to be so complicated?!? Ha

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