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    #101902 - 05/10/11 04:59 PM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: Wren]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Oh, it's the same post. Same thing, really...


    but the real question is whether or not understanding your child gives you any tools to get a HANDLE on any of it.


    I'd say that the answer to that one is-- "It depends on the precise blend of personality quirks."

    In my family, the answer is "no." In fact, in some ways it makes things MORE difficult. All I know is that I can learn from the mistakes that my own upbringing sheds light upon... and extrapolate from there and blend in what research exists on kids at DD's apparent LOG... and then we try... and we wait and see.

    whistle

    Because maybe there really CAN be only one... but we have three people in this household all swinging (metaphorical) broadswords over that argument at any one moment.

    Er.

    Metaphor kinda got away from me, there...


    Edited by HowlerKarma (05/10/11 05:02 PM)
    _________________________
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    #101907 - 05/10/11 05:20 PM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: kaibab]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2604
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: kaibab
    A bit more seriously . . . .

    I find all these terms more fluid in real life than I imagined them to be on paper when my child was younger. If a child is radically accelerated in one subject and "rapid" in another, then what do you call it? What about the kid doing college level stuff at 12 who decides to do a regular high school in order to have more sports and the social aspects of high school? Is the child accelerated? What about the kid who is homeschooled and way, way above level in everything, but claims age-grade level in order to compete in a national spelling bee? Or science fair? Or mathcounts? And then does differential equations on the side in middle school without official credit?

    I think really smart kids follow a variety of paths and predicting which path my child follows is difficult from month to month, let alone planning for college for a 6 yo. When my son was 6, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to work this in the future. Should I move for better schools? Should I let him skip grades? 1? 2? 5 grades? I'm still learning, but one thing I've really observed in the last several years it that what worked for other parents and families might not work for mine. The outcomes of kids in SET or the DA don't really help me. My kid will be like those children in some ways and vastly different in others. I know his situation best and have to make decision based on what I think about him and his needs, not what worked for others.


    Parents make decisions about educating their children based on their expectations of the outcomes of their actions, and I think research should inform those expectations. If for example, the research on grade-skipped children found that they often burned out and dropped out of high school and college at higher rates than IQ-matched peers who did not skip, I would very reluctant to have my children skip a grade. (The research does not find that.)
    _________________________
    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell

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    #101911 - 05/10/11 05:55 PM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: Wren]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Yes, but unfortunately, that research often seems to be retrospective anecdote more than anything else.

    So it's hard to know what it means. Especially when one examines how complex and interrelated the factors such as personality, intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation, etc. seem to play into outcomes.

    It also begs a lot of questions regarding how those outcomes are defined in the first place.

    After all, if every remarkable MIT or CalTech graduate in physics were expected to win a Nobel Prize, a great many of them would eventually be labeled as "failures" via that particular rubric.
    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

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    #101914 - 05/10/11 06:01 PM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: HowlerKarma]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2604
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: HowlerKarma
    Yes, but unfortunately, that research often seems to be retrospective anecdote more than anything else.


    That's not a fair description of Terman's longitudinal research, for example.
    _________________________
    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell

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    #101921 - 05/10/11 06:38 PM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: Wren]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    And you have to balance their happiness now with their future happiness and try to give them enough of both.  For now you have to do it for them until they're old enough to do it for themselves.  I think the gifted part factors in that you may have to make that transition sooner rather than later whether you've accelerated or not.

      Is early desire for independence and authority over ones life part of gifted asynchronousity?  Lu-Lu and Sofie's tiger-mother taught us it could be a personality trait independent of LoG & nurture both.

      Wren if you would consider foreign exchange studentship for your daughter (she is your daughter) u might consider looking at foreign colleges as well and what age/educational requirements they have.  I mean France, Germany, China.  I haven't looked into it, but I think you should.  I have considered foreign exchange options when my kids become high schoolers (plan ahead much?) but the hubby told me not to be surprised if the boy wants to do his college in Mexico.  I haven't told the hubby yet but I wouldn't be surprised if the kids want to do their college in Europe or Asia either.  My dad told me "the world's your oyster", whatever that means:
    http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070314162158AAIvlFC

    Great topic Wren!
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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    #101929 - 05/10/11 07:28 PM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: Wren]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    Now I'm the one that's way off. .. //>.>\\'... oops. That thing that was in the sixties or seventies that I was thinking about were the male presidential merit scholars between 1964 and 1968 and was followed up by Felice Kaufmann in her dissertation study for her Ph. D. 1978.  

    and the school story I remembered from the same book made a school for children identified as gifted in St. Louis in 1961 and their parents and teachers were told "they were the best candidates for the roles of "leaders of tomorrow".  This was during the Russian Sputnik era.  That's what it was, the kid's with the special gifted education seemed destine to fulfil their talents and also had vivid personality, vibrant, well on their way to success.  At the age of 50 "The men, however, had somehow, against all odds , become-well--ordinary.  They were as funny and articulate and alert as they had ever been.  But they seemed overly gentle and subdued.  They were ....middle managers, mid-level accountants, executives of small prosperous firms, and busy lawyers.  They were contented, caring, ethical guys.  However, the arching career trajectory of their youth and early adulthood seemed to have leveled out as they persued the pleasures of family life and their myriad of advocations."

    I mentioned it because you were looking for long term data, but I thought it was PG men, it was only gifted kids "identified to be the future leaders of tomorrow.". But maybe I could stretch this to make it look like I hadn't taken up all this space needlessly and scan the book again to see how kauffman's merit scholars turned out by middle age.  No, I really don't think I can make this goof-up relevant.  I've lost my touch. (pouting)
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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    #101941 - 05/11/11 01:25 AM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: Wren]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1602
    The longitudinal study of Hunter elementary mimiced Terman. All the kids identified as gifted early on and given the special treatment didn't do as well as the rejects. Kids that came in at 7th grade for the HS did better, had more motivation.

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    #101947 - 05/11/11 06:21 AM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: Wren]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2604
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: Wren
    The longitudinal study of Hunter elementary mimiced Terman. All the kids identified as gifted early on and given the special treatment didn't do as well as the rejects. Kids that came in at 7th grade for the HS did better, had more motivation.


    Could you provide a link to or citation for this study? It is difficult for me to believe that going to a gifted elementary school harms gifted students.
    _________________________
    "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." - George Orwell

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    #101948 - 05/11/11 06:31 AM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: Wren]
    susandj Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/09
    Posts: 92
    I have to say that a lot of the conversation about "future leadership" strikes me as pretty silly. My son is very gifted, but is not now, and likely will not ever be, a social leader. Maybe he will come up with a major innovation in science, maybe he won't. I'm quite certain he won't be a CEO of anything.

    None of that means that he shouldn't receive gifted education at his current level. Our school system has determined that the "point" of gifted education is to "create our future leaders". What rubbish. So instead of doing math and science acceleration or enrichment for my son (who is a mathy, sciency kid), he is being offered a pullout that focuses on "social studies", "multicultural diversity", and "communication". You must be joking. And what are they going to do for his math where he is three years ahead?

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    #101962 - 05/11/11 10:09 AM Re: Rapid Acceleration [Re: Wren]
    La Texican Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/10/10
    Posts: 1777
    Loc: South Texas
    Of course.  It sounds very silly because it's an excerpt from a program in the 60's.  We were in a race to space with Russia at the time.  It's from the book Smart Boys by Barbra Kerr.  
    OP the 50 year follow-ups of these old gifted programs appear to speak positively of you natural inclination twords one of they good NYC gifted programs.  
    These results may not be relevant to the subject of accelerated advancement in today's environment.

    The overwhelming evidence for the efficient thriftyness and benefits of acceleration are in the document "A Nation Deceived" and other articles.
    _________________________
    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle on a calendar

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