Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy End-of-school-year-itis

In the spring a young Alex's fancy lightly turns to thoughts of alternatives to her current school. Mom needs a brain dump.

She was fine at the end of kindergarten (and I estimated her to be capable of working at about 1.5th grade). She was utterly miserable by the end of first grade (and I estimated her to be capable of working at about 3.5th grade), lobbied for a full skip, and has been hugely successful, both academically and socially, as a 3rd grader. She is pretty unhappy now, at the end of 3rd (and I'd guess her at close to end-of-4th in math, strong 5th / emerging 6th in reading, not particularly ahead in grammar / spelling / language arts terminology).

She's spent the last week and a half writing diatribes about why she should go to a different school, or be homeschooled. At one point, she said she wished there were an IXL site for all subjects, and she would learn all of 4th grade over the summer, and be a 5th grader next year.

Her arguments against staying where she is are:
- She won't be with such annoying people. (She is in full-on anti-boy mode, and wants to go to an all-girls school. There exists no such thing in our state. I have explained that switching schools will not reduce the number of annoying boys she has to deal with. Her fallback solution is homeschooling.)
- She could check books out from the public library, and not be limited by what the school library has. (The dictatorship of Accelerated Reader means she has a fairly limited selection of books she considers "her level." Further discussion reveals the real issue is "we don't have enough library time for me to successfully pick a book I enjoy.")
- She has insufficient friends "on my level." Further discussion reveals that "on my level" means "interested in the same stuff I am and not interested in stuff I dislike;" it's not clear that it means "as smart as I am." (When she started off the year, she was about even with the bright-normal kids in 3rd. Her best friend is gifted-identified, and when they were playing together at our house last, I noticed the friend asking DD what the words DD used meant, and how to spell words for some project they were doing.)

Her last write-up had an entire homeschooling plan worked out, using IXL for math, hands-on science experiments, parent-assigned reading and "harder spelling," with supervision provided by her elderly grandparents. Staying home with her elderly grandparents has historically been a fate on par with death in her eyes (and I don't believe for a second that it would play out that way).

Her schoolwork is pretty unremarkable, and starting to fall off some. (Her last math test had 10 problems. She left the last 2 completely blank, as if they weren't even there. The online gradebook says she got a 70% on a language arts test last Thursday, but I haven't seen it come home yet, so don't know what the issue is which was apparently a typo for a spelling test she did fine on.) She makes careless errors - subtracting when she should add, or borrowing automatically when it's not needed, for instance. She is slow as molasses, and will sit staring blankly at a problem for a long time, whispering it to herself over and over. When the class does timed math drills, she'll bring home a set of 3 sheets, which they were given 3 10-minute periods to complete. The addition set will have maybe 5-10 problems done. The multiplication set will have more - I've seen as many as 30. The subtraction sheet will be covered in complaints about hating school. I know she knows the material; she can do much harder stuff at home.

We have parental disagreement as to the best solution.

Both of us oppose another full skip, for a variety of reasons, chief among them for me being that she doesn't need acceleration in language arts (other than reading). Both of us oppose private school (homework load would crush her) and homeschooling (both of us need to work, and DD does not learn well from me, although we've been doing better).

I'm in favor of a math acceleration. Math is an easy subject to decelerate (or to pursue further acceleration) in our district; a subject acceleration will expose her to twice as many potential friends simultaneously; reading acceleration wouldn't work as well due to asynchronous development (and wouldn't likely help anyhow - she jumped 4 grade equivalents in 4 months on STAR Reading, and tested at a grade equivalent of 10.2 in December - there's not a class doing age-appropriate work that would challenge her); she's sort of a freakish kid anyhow (she talks like an old-fashioned book), so she may as well be a freakish kid with twice the chance of finding well-matched friends and academic challenge.

Her mama is opposed to any further acceleration at all, in the "just let her be a kid / why push her" school of thought.

Our district makes acceleration easy, but the timeline is really strict - you can't give a grade a try and then test up or drop down, but have to test over the summer and live with whatever decision you made then.

I don't really have any questions - just wanted to get everything out of my brain so I could see it from some distance.

Sounds like you have a lot of different smaller or medium problems adding up to one big one. Can you break them down and try to address them singly? For example, your idea of math acceleration fixes one discrete problem (math is too easy at current level) and will have a bonus of easing overall boredom-related stress while also exposing her to other kids.

I know about the leave-it-blank or ignore-it thing. I'm seeing it too, and need to discuss the issue with one of my son's teachers. I wonder if it comes from being tired of doing the same thing again and again.

I remember once in 7th grade we had to take a math test: 50 problems, and they were all the same; convert a decimal to a percent or a fraction and vice-versa. That test was so boring, everyone in the class stopped caring that it was a test and most kids shut down. Fifty of those problems was just too dull and no one could focus after a while. There were lots of blanks on that test (even though all the problems were at the same level of difficulty) and our teacher got really angry at us. He just didn't get it.

Sounds like she learns things very fast. The pace of an average class-room even describing something new to her would be ... slow.

You and your wife are not pushing her, she's pulling you guys -- that is rather typical of gifted kids who learn at a rapid pace. I haven't looked back at your earlier posts to see her level of giftedness but what you've described so far sure makes it sound she is highly gifted and needs more depth/detail/etc. Even her description of the kids around her is her telling you she needs/wants more. Remember, she is there everyday for hours having to interact in that environment -- and she is telling you something about that environment. Adults have a choice. She doesn't (yet).

Consider what the 'cost' to her would be in the choices you have -- what would be the worse case scenario? Will she shut down if kept at school? There won't be an ideal solution, but just a least damaging solution ...

best wishes, do let us know how it goes...

We can fix the library issue fairly easily; I can access the school database and send her with a list of books I think she'll like.

If anyone with more boy experience has a suggestion for the boy issue, I'd be glad for it! I've seen the "annoying" boys interact with her before school - they all yell "Hi, Alex!" when she walks up, and smile at her while she scowls and turns away. When she accidentally dumped milk on herself at lunch and had to wear too-big jeans from the nurse's clothes closet, one of them showed her how to fold and tuck her jeans and shirt together so they didn't fall down. Those little boys aren't tormenting her - they just like her. (And explaining got that me a turned-away scowl.)

I don't know what to do about the meeting academic peers thing, absent an acceleration (and I don't know that acceleration would help long-term, because she moves so fast, but surely she's got to ceiling out at some point, right?) We aren't close enough to a talent search to do day camp, and she isn't ready for sleepaway camp (sleepovers with friends or family run about a 50% success rate). We have a gifted school reasonably local, but they use a 90th percentile cutoff, and warn about the heavy homework load - which combined with the longer commute would mean homework would fill all the time between arriving home and going to bed.

For example, your idea of math acceleration fixes one discrete problem (math is too easy at current level) and will have a bonus of easing overall boredom-related stress while also exposing her to other kids.


She said she had no idea why she'd left them blank, and that she wasn't even aware she'd done it until she got the test back. (At which point she worked those two problems and asked for a regrade, but the original grade wasn't low enough to qualify.)

When I see her do it, it's like she just tunes out. Any little interruption is enough to send her off into dreamland. But you're right, it's always when she's working on something that's too much of the same thing, and a suggestion that just working through as fast as she can to get it over with is enough to get her back on track.

Thank you, that was a very helpful train of thought. I'm going to suggest that she move to another IXL topic once she's gotten the 80% baseline proficiency, rather than pushing through for 100%. (Those last 20% take at least as many right answers as the first 80%, and one typo can knock 10 points off your score, while a right answer only adds 1 or 2%. I accidentally hit a key that messed up her right answer, and it took me about 15 problems to get her score back up.)

I never would have identified that as too much of the same thing, because it happens even on topics that are new to her, but now that I think about it, it never happens on topics that she doesn't quite get, and has to work at - just on topics that have lost their challenge.

I am a horrible judge of that, vacillating between "she didn't understand that completely after one high-level explanation, so maybe she's not as smart as I think" and "she saw that stuff once, briefly, two months ago, and understood it completely after one demonstration, which is pretty unusual."

IMHO she learns faster than I did at that age, but it's hard to look back 30 years and evaluate how you yourself learned. She gets stuck less than I remember getting stuck, perseveres more, pushes herself more, and cares more about doing well at school. She's also better with people, more athletic, and more artistic.


We haven't had her tested (and may not, because a number wouldn't change the underlying issues, you know?). I'd guess that she'd test higher than I would, and I'm pretty smart, but lower than her cousin would. Her cousin presents as much more typically HG; DD is a late bloomer who plays her cards close to the vest. It wouldn't surprise me if she tested well enough for DYS (although it would surprise me if she were significantly above the cutoff, or above on significantly more sections than required), and it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't qualify (although it would surprise me if she were significantly below the cutoff).

She's a smart kid, but not so smart it scares me. Much.

oooh oooh ask me!!! i have seen this!!

yeah, we have a ds10 who is abysmally slow most of the time in school assigned math, especially when time is emphasized. The multiplication, etc., aren't much of an issue when he has a serious math problem to really challenge him. He is slow when things are low-level, he is of normal speed when the problem solving is the main event. (can't do a sheet of multiplication problems in the same time as other 5th graders, is doing just fine with algebra - at home). I am not saying that is great, it does present a lot of challenge to get people to see he has some considerable math ability, but it may not be the huge stumbling-block to all other math that some teachers make it out to be (inability to care about/complete a time math fact sheet).

And, recalling my childhood, when mom would drop me off at the library on a saturday afternoon for *hours*, and it was just the coolest thing, I am going to have to start doing that with ds10 (or at least go with).

I'm just wondering whether the fact that your district has a system for subject accelerating is maybe stopping you and the teachers considering other options. For example, DS7's now got into a steady pattern that works (fingers crossed!) of doing his own maths sent in by me alongside his peers doing sums. For him, this is, I'm sure, a better solution than sending him to any other class - even if there was a class doing work at the right level (which there isn't) the pace would be wrong and the content would be wrong (IMO a strong mathematician needs far more time spent on problem-solving than school has time for in the usual curriculum at any level).

I do realise that this wouldn't help with finding peers (something DS doesn't seem bothered by at present) but possibly it might be worth considering? A way to play it might be to have her take the test as for maths acceleration, and then instead of accepting the acceleration ask for the chance to set her her own work in 4th grade next year. Since she'd then be a 4th grader who'd already demonstrated mastery of 4th grade maths, school might buy it, and maybe A's mama might be more comfortable with this than with acceleration? It would also give you a chance to let A pick her own challenge level in at least that subject, which might help.

FWIW if you can find something for maths that cuts WAY down on the repetition I bet that'd be good for her. TBH I'm coming to think that DS7 doesn't need repetition at all for school level maths, and in fact I am even wondering why we think anyone does, beyond arithmetic. Things go best for DS7 if every question is at least slightly different from anything he's ever seen before, and I've come to think, well, why not? I think switching off is often the only self-defence mechanism someone has in the face of unneeded repetition, but it's a really dangerous habit; it would be better if she didn't need to do it.

I don't really understand the boy thing - why is it that she finds the boys annoying? Do you understand that?

Her homeschool plan had maths, discussed, harder reading (and you have a plan for that), hands-on science (which you can do, or do more, at home at the weekends, maybe?) and harder spellings. Why harder spellings? How is spelling done such that too-easy spellings are a problem rather than a no-op? Can you change that?

You described my DD8, in gr 3, almost to a T! We have been having these sorts of discussions with her as well. We talked to the school about another grade skip and were told NO! not a chance, then a list of reasons why a 2nd grade skip "doesn't work for kids" (most of which are just the same old myths we've all heard before). We are actually looking at a school change for DD because her current one is not working, and they don't seem able/willing to do anything. DD also wants friends on her level, wants challenges and more/more/more of everything.
Personally, I think that it is amazing that even when a child can completely explain why their curent situation is unappropriate for them that the adults in charge are still unwilling to admit that they do not know what to do with the child.

We are also trying to find places for DD to find peers, we've not been successful yet, but are still looking.

We will probably do a lot of "schooling" this summer because she desperately wants to know more depth about everything. We will spend a lot of time in the library letting her explore topics and then checking out museums and other stuff to try and keep up with her need to learn more stuff.

DD is not asychronous, so we have issues with her rate of learning across the board, which would make her a good candidate for another grade skip, but.....

We do not have the boy issue too much yet, but I think that is mainly becasue there are not many boys in her class. However, she does get disgusted by the boys behavior more rapidly than girls.

I don't really have any suggestions, but do feel your pain. If I come up with anythins that works, I'll let you know.

Yes! If she had some giant multi-digit multiplication problem that required knowing every fact family, she'd breeze through it gleefully. Yesterday's "why I want to be homeschooled" essay included "I would not have to take timed tests."


I personally don't consider DD to be intuitively mathy, just quick to learn. (I remember reading something about people who get to grad school in math, only to discover there's a difference between "is good at solving textbook math problems" and "is a mathematician," and that math grad school is meant for mathematicians. DD IMHO is likely to fall into the first category, not the second.)

But yes, one of her mama's arguments against a subject acceleration is that she wants to be sure DD has a solid foundation in the math facts before moving on, and all those blank worksheets are not helping. OTOH, we sent her to third counting on her fingers to subtract and completely unable to reliably subtract with borrowing, and she did fine. I can't imagine a year of subtraction fact drill would have improved things.


I remember when my mom went back to work (when I was 13 or so), any my choice for the summer was to sit in the un-air-conditioned house and watch soap operas on one of the 3 over-the-air TV channels, or to ride my bike the 10 miles to the library. So I'd ride there every day in the morning, read books in the cool all day, and she'd pick me up on her way home.

Oh, that does make sense. At the beginning of the year, I heard tons of complaints about "the boys are goofing around, telling jokes I don't think are funny, when they should be being quiet so I can learn!" I wonder if she thinks that if the boys weren't being "annoying," the class would move faster? Or that everyone could move as fast as she could, if they only would be quiet and pay attention?


I don't believe that she sees it as a good solution now - just that she threw it out there as something potentially better than the status quo. It was only a couple of months ago that she stopped saying "I wish I could go back to 2nd grade" and started saying "skipping 2nd was a good decision."


Unfortunately, I'm getting "I only agreed to the skip because I saw DD turn down TV for math practice night after night during summer vacation, so I knew it was her who wanted it, and not you" and "She wasn't happy, so we let her skip, but then she still wasn't happy. You can't just keep doing things hoping that they'll make her happy" pushback. (DD's mama was the kind of kid who intentionally flew under the radar, using her mental energy to manipulate the system and get classmates to do her bidding. She places huge value on being able to do repetitive schoolwork "quickly and perfectly," and to blend in socially. We have a kid with a lot more of my personality than hers, which I attribute to temperament and mama attributes to lack of discipline.)